Segregation in mosques – the woes of being a woman
Ruqaya Izzidien7 November 2009 in Islam, Religion
Most women I know have no problem being placed behind the men in a mosque, not because they use the chance to husband-shop, (although I know some women do seize that particular ‘opportunity’) but because it is the more appealing option compared to the alternative. Segregation in mosques often manifests itself as rifling off the women into a back room from where they cannot see the Imam.
For purely practical reasons, this kind of segregation makes little sense. I’ve walked into a mosque halfway through a prayer, with no orientation and no idea whereabouts in the prayer the men are as there are no other women. Just last Eid, the Imam made a mistake – it happens. The problem is, when he corrected himself the men could see what he was doing. The women ended up looking like woodpeckers, not knowing what to do with themselves. There’s a reason that there’s an Imam, you are supposed to follow him. That’s a little challenging if you’re stuck in the outhouse.
Let’s think about it logically. Women are typically supposed to pray behind men because, well … I’m guessing partly because a row of women’s behinds in your face is going to be a bit distracting. This highlights my point. When was it decided that, instead of praying behind the men as historically has been done for centuries, women should be hauled off to a different room where they are lucky if there is a good sound system in place? Even in Mecca, the women aren’t carted off to a different room. I know Mecca is not your average mosque, but if that doesn’t set a precedent then what does?
Sometimes this type of segregation is done for purely practical reasons, particularly here in the UK, where the building is positioned in such a way that the women have to pray adjacent to the men in order to face Mecca. I would suggest that in such cases, instead of building an entire wall, cutting off the women completely, a space should be left so that the women at the front can see the Imam at the very least. Often there are very few women who attend prayers (compared to men) and I can tell you from experience that there is nothing worse than feeling excluded from the Muslim community inside your own mosque.
Segregated events
A similar problem arises when there are Muslim events organized in the UK. Every so often at a university or in a local meeting there might be a talk or study circle or a gathering amongst Muslims where organizers feel compelled to separate the women and men with a partition. Think about it; the more outwardly religious amongst us women wear the hijab. What purpose does this hope to serve? Nobody can deny that one of the primary objectives of the hijab is to deflect any unwanted gazes. So I ask, what is the point in wearing a hijab to these events if organizers put up a makeshift hijab barrier, separating the sexes.
To be frank, surely the point of the hijab is that it enables different members of the Muslim community to mix without fear of someone checking you out? So why risk alienating Muslim women further with a barrier? I understand that it can be a sensitive subject and organizers would rather err on the side of caution, but this is why we need dialogue between Muslim men and women. The irony is that it’s hard to have dialogue with a barrier splitting the room.
Let’s be honest, in the UK, it is not like Muslim men never speak to women or don’t come into contact with them as soon as they leave the mosque. It is impossible to earn a living or get an education without coming into contact with the fairer sex. So let’s not pretend that putting up a barrier will make that much of a difference. Perhaps a barrier is what the majority of the women at any such event would want, in which case it makes complete sense. Unfortunately, in my experience, the decision is usually made for us. Indeed during one Friday prayer I attended, I specifically heard one of the men (via a crackling microphone) saying that they ought not to bother the women by asking their opinion. So I decided not to worry my pretty little head about it.
Open the discussion and work out a solution that pleases everyone. I’m pleased to say that the mosque I just referenced has seen vast improvements in the last few months as a result of inclusion and dialogue. The way to build a strong community is to have input from all people. Otherwise you end up with bitter outcasts complaining about it on the net.
BM
“Women are typically supposed to pray behind men because, well … I’m guessing partly because a row of women’s behinds in your face is going to be a bit distracting”.
When our men are going to concentrate on their prayers in the house of God and not be distracted by women?
Civilized men have been praying in Churches for centuries without distraction.
When our men are going to have control over their emotions, senses and faculties so women don’t have to cover themselves and sit in the back?
Our women have been taking the responsibility and burden to cover up for our men weakens and that is not fair.
Last I checked, the praying method in churches was physically somewhat different to that adopted in mosques. I agree that most of the time people are not distracted by one another and that men should control themselves. However sitting behind men is hardly capital punishment. It’s only symbolic if you are paranoid enough to look for symbols. Where I grew up at least, sitting at the back was the best place to be- in the school bus, in the classroom. I don’t know of any Muslim women who would actually want to pray with or in front of the men- and I know some ‘radical liberals’ or whatever the media is labelling them these days.
Also- in Islam men have the responsibility to cover up for womens weaknesses, to a lesser extent for many reasons, but it works both ways.
THis was an article written about shuffling women into a different room, which is the first bridge you have to cross don’t you think? I could write another article about the ‘inferiority’ of women in Islam, but that’s another issue.
Dear Sister, Firstly, the main reason for the women to be behind the men is that there is no distraction for either ones when they are offering salat. Secondly, it is better if there is a barrier, it can be a slide wall or a permanent wall so that there is no intermingling of sexes, which is not allowed according to hijab. Another very important thing is that Prophet Muhammad Sallahu Alaihi wa sallam said that it is not farz for the women to offer salat-ul-juma or salat-ul-eid, although according to a hadith it is mustahab and is good if you do so but there is not harm even if u dont. When u offer salat in a jamat according to all the four major madhabs or according to the hadith of sahih bukhari (razi allahu anhu) if the imam offers his salat perfectly then ur salat will be accepted and even if the imam does any mistake it will be counted as his mistake not as the mistake of ppl following him.
We have to first ascertain why are we going for salat, is it for allah subhan a wa ta aala or to show it to other ppl. If we go with the humility for allah SWT and offer it with the right neeyat then rest is on Allah SWT. When u say that u dont understand the concept of women being behind, we do it as allah SWT and his rasool PBUH did so, there are many things which are beyond our understanding and that is the reason we follow what Allah and his rasool said. If we add or change it according to what we feel is right then its called bidat.
Insha allah ta aala i hope allah provide us with right knowledge understanding and neeyat.
Dear Ms. Izzidien,
Historically, women has been treated unfairly and not as an equal as men in all religions and cultures. Now, things are getting better for them in civilized societies. I am concentrating on the weaknesses of Muslim men in general and particularly in Egypt. I know this is not covered under ” Segregation in Mosques “, but women are shoved in the back to accommodate men’s weaknesses. I read suggestions that the Niquab should be changed to show only one eye, or not to show the eyes at all, because the eyes are attractive to men. Only a psychopath gets excited by only seeing a pair of eyes. Something has to be done to address the weakness problem since it became out of control.
By the way I do like the article and looking forward to read more of your future articles
in reply to ‘ charles darwin’ (author of the first comment) with regards too his assertion :
‘ Civilized men have been praying in Churches for centuries without distraction’
This unfortunately is somewhat rather a lie . One only has to ask the choir boys to ascertain this is far from the truth. furthermore the use of the word civilized seems to hold a darker connotation within this sentence, which i resent.
BM,
Your problem is that you are trying to approach this from a logical perspective, which will never make any sense for anybody because Islam is not based on logical analysis and debate, rather on the Quran and Sunnah. So just accept it as it is, this is Islam because that’s how the experts have interpreted it.
If you want a logical approach to life, my advice is to consider something like Bhuddism or athiesm as many others have for that same exact reason.
Amr Bassiouny: Despite their are no Priest-hood or Rabi-hood in Islam (Kahanoot). A new layer of religious clerks started to complicate it by adding more rules, regulations and interpretations. As of the Sunnah,the number of Hadith are growing daily and not all are authentic. The same thing happened to Christianity, but faithful Christians reformed it. Average Egyptian rely on these people in understanding Islam. He/she usually gets no substance bizarre advice on how to ware the beard and shave the mustache, how to enter the bathroom with the right foot first, women should not undress in front of a male dog…etc. Islam has been hijacked by these clerks and faithful Muslims are waiting for their own version Martin Luther to reform it.
Mr. Afifi: Change “civilized men” into “men with healthy psychology”
Mr Darwin,
What on earth are you talking about? What hadiths are increasing by the day?
There are 4 main books that have been the main authority on the hadith, all written a long time after the prophet died. The Quran is incomplete without them, and it says that in the Quran quite clearly. Look at the 4 books, you can start with sa7ee7 Bukhari and Muslim, and you will find all the nonsense in the world there. Nothing new, all old. That’s where you get all the bizzar advice, not from any mysterious new hadiths which you are referring to. The poor clerics are only blind followers of this (lack of) logic, don’t blame them for what is in their own holy scripture.
If one wants to question the logic of his religion, he should do so, and stop making excuses to justify its illogical approach.
Once again, religion is not a logical aspect. It is based on faith, we all know this, but we all fear to admit it. If you want to work with logic, you will have a very hard time keeping up with both the Quran and Hadith.
amr bassiouny.
I’m not particularly sure with which authority or knowledge you talk about Islam , clearly none. using abstract vague terms as logical without any evidence is proof of your baseless accusation .
what is it u find illogical about:
Muslim narrated via the way of Abu Hurayra “that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) said:
‘Do you know who the bankrupt (muflis ) is?’
They said: ‘The bankrupt (muflis) among us is the one without money or assets.’
He said: ‘The bankrupt (muflis) in my Nation (Ummah) is the individual who comes on the Day of Judgement with many good deeds to his name, prayer, fasting and charity (zakat). yet he comes and he has insulted , falsely accused , cheated , spilt other’s blood and struck this one. They are compensated, one is given from his good deeds and this other from his good deeds. If his good deeds finish before that which is upon him is not paid off, it is taken from their sins and they are thrown upon him. Then he is thrown in the Fire.”
further evidence that what you say is incomprehensibly wrong . It appears the vatican has had to bow down to the logical approach to banking that islam has proposed for 1430 years unlike the illogical system present now that has crippled the world, and starved millions:
‘the Vatican newspaper Osservatore Romano has voiced its approval of Islamic finance. The Vatican paper wrote that banks should look at the rules of Islamic finance to restore confidence amongst their clients at a time of global economic crisis. “The ethical principles on which Islamic finance is based may bring banks closer to their clients and to the true spirit which should mark every financial service,”
ref : http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601092&sid=aOsOLE8uiNOg&refer=italy
Mr Afifi,
What does Islamic banking have to do with anything we’re discussing now? The subject in case is the segregation of women, not financial systems or moral bankruptcy. I hope you read the subject well and stop going off in tangents.
Isn’t it amazing? All 3 montheistic religions have apparently a huge problem with us women
. In the synagogues the women are (usually) upstairs, in the mosques (usually) behind men and in the catholic churches of my youth they were ushered to the left, separated from men by a corridor of at least 1,5 m. And all of this because men supposedly are branded as “animals” who cannot control their … dare I say it? – “lust and instincts”?!?!
Most surprising to me is that men accept this label and even cement it in theirs and our minds … any explanation for this by a rational man? I for my part refuse this notion profoundly based on my 98% positive experience with men.
Suggestion: why not spirit all women to the western hemisphere and all men to the eastern. Every now and then the married couples can meet in “nowhere’s land” and reproduce. Would that satisfy the blockheads of all religions? Or would this still not be enough segregation? The moon might come in handy …
Why is it that we accept that certain trivial issues are pushed (for self-serving reasons only!) to the front and we forget what real religion (including prayers) is all about – IMO: it is a dialogue between the believer and God, a spiritual unity between head and heart and not a matter of who sits where – of which hand goes over which hand in prayer – whether to step in the bathroom backwards or forwards or by walking on the hands …
The holy Qu’ran mentiones more than 300 (in words: three hundred!!) times that we should/must use our brains – surprisingly this has not been spread among many of the believers. I wonder why?????
To all of you readers and writers: Peace – Salam – Shalom
PS We performed Haj in 2007 and prayed in Mecca next to men (left, right, front and back) and am still intact … and the men too!
Dear Nayeem (comment #3)
I would lov to understand you comment correctly but I’m not very familiar with all your Arabic expressions. Is there a way that you can translate them? I know it sometimes is easier but … you’ve lost me.
Also I don’t quite comprehend what you try to sayL “…it can be a slide wall or a permanent wall so that there is no intermingling of sexes, which is not allowed according to hijab.” ??? ??? But as I said in my first comment: I’m suprised that you men accept being labeled as lustful monsters …
Salam
Dear Charles Darwin
You say: “Civilized men have been praying in Churches for centuries without distraction.”
Yeah, right you are … because those civilized men where separated from the women folks
.
Salam
Should gay men be put in the women’s area, considering that having a whole row of men bending down infront of a uncontrollably horny gay man (just like all other straight men) will be very distracting?
What if he’s bisexual?
To Amr Bassiouny – yr comment #14
Had a good laugh about your questions
.
And what to do with a lesbian woman? Put her with men? So many valid unanswered questions
Eleonora,
All my pleasure. I am truly curious though, so if anybody around here can send an answer over, I’d like to hear it.
Ms. Eleanora, I agree with your comment “All 3 monotheistic religions have apparently a huge problem with us women”. Why then an intelligent, educated and independent women follow these religions?
Mr.Bassiouny, I also agree with you that ” … religion is not a logical aspect. It is based on faith, we all know this, but we all fear to admit it.” Again, why intelligent, educated people follow something that not logic and can’t be proved? and fear from what?
Charles Darwin,
Before I answer your questions, I’d like to ask one of my own: Why do intelligent, educated men and women all over the world not believe in Islam, and why do so many of them think Islam is Evil? Your point is absolutely useless, has no basis, because there’s intelligent people from all beliefs, and that being the case doesn’t prove anything. You should be bright enough to realize this.
To answer your question: Brainwashing from childhood. We all go through it as Muslims, since it’s a duty for parents to drill it into each child’s head that Islam is always right and that if we aren’t Muslims we’re doomed to hell for eternity. Islam uses the same tactic Bush used with the American public to make them follow him–FEAR. In fact, you are blatantly instructed that questioning Islam will put you in hell too (refer to hadith bukhari and others), and as a child that makes you fear questioning it as God is monitoring your every thought at every second.
So it’s not really about whether a person is intelligent or not, in fact has absolutely nothing to do about intelligence whether it’s Muslim or Jewish. It’s about how much balls they have to stand up to their own inner daemons.
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