Christian org to Obama: Egypt gov’t complicit in “raping” Coptic girls
Nov 16th, 2009 | By Mohamed Abdel Salam | Category: Egypt, Featured, News, Women
CAIRO: An American Christian organization accused the Egyptian government of involvement in “raping and the coercive disappearance of Coptic girls and forcing them to convert to Islam” and accused Cairo of “trafficking Coptic girls and women in Egypt.” The International Christian Solidarity Organization, an American-based Christian group, sent a letter to American President Barack Obama demanding he intervene to “save” Christians in Egypt.
America In Arabic news agency reported that the ICSO, a conservative Christian American Organization known for sponsoring conferences and campaigns to promote the claims of the persecution of Copts in Egypt, accused the Egyptian Government, in a letter sent to President Obama, of involvement in these crimes. The organization said that such crimes in Egypt are “a widespread phenomenon” and are consistent with “recognized definitions of trafficking in human beings,” which represents a “crime against humanity.”
The organization claimed in the letter that Pope Shenouda III, the head of the Egyptian Coptic Church objected to what the organization described as the “trafficking of Christian women in Egypt” and attributed remarks to him.
The organization said in the letter that “trafficking in Christian women in Egypt is not a new phenomenon, as Pope Shenouda III, the Pope of the Coptic Orthodox Church protested this explicitly in 1976, when he said ‘there is pressure on Coptic girls to convert to Islam and to get the married to Muslims by threatening and terrorizing them’,” said the letter.
The letter, signed by John Ebner, head of the ICSO, urged President Obama to “encourage President Hosni Mubarak to take credible action to combat trafficking in Coptic girls and women and to combat the repressive Islamic culture that nurtures the atmosphere of these incidents.”
The organization also urged Obama earlier this month to ask American Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to put the issue of “trafficking of Coptic women on top the agenda of diplomatic relations between Egypt and the U.S.”
Ebner said in his letter to Obama that “it seems that these violations are being instigated by the tacit involvement of the government, which is evidenced by the lack of desire from the Egyptian government to start the proper investigation in the allegations of rape, abduction and abuse.”
The letter added that a report by the organization issued in cooperation with the Coptic Organization for Human Rights, based in Switzerland, documents what is described as “a criminal pattern that includes deception, sexual violence, capturing , forced conversion to Islam , and forced marriages of Christians in Egypt.”
The ICSO says that it is concerned with religious human rights and that it helps in saving the victims of “religious repression.” The organization says it is active in conflict zones such as Iraq, Sudan and Pakistan.
The letter has aroused the anger of three Egyptian Churches – Orthodox, Catholic and Evangelical. The three churches called the letter of the American organization as a “blatant interference in Egyptian affairs” and have condemned its message.
Bishop Bassanti, the Bishop of the Coptic Orthodox Church in Helwan, told al-Dustour that “this does not happen in Egypt and we have nothing to do with Obama. Egypt’s President is Mubarak and not Obama.” The Bishop added that the problems of Copts are an internal Egyptian affair that should be “addressed and solved inside Egypt.”
Archbishop Salib Matta Sawiris of the Church of St. George in Shubra – a suburb of Cairo – rejected any foreign intervention in Egyptian affairs, contending that this is “like trading the Coptic issue” for foreign involvement.
“When there are problems experienced by the Copts in Egypt, these problems must be resolved internally by the hands of Egyptians,” he said.
Rev. Ikram Lame’i, spokesman for the Evangelical Church in Egypt, said the ICSO is conservative, adding that it is “impossible for the Egyptian government to help in raping or abducting Christian girls or to force them to convert to Islam.” He said the Egyptian government takes immediate action when these incidents are reported.
BM
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Liars! Egyptian society is conservative, true! Egyptian society is dominated by wahabbi thinking nowadays, true! There is sectarian tension between Muslims and Coptic citizens, true! But still we keep values of dignity, magnanimity, and pride. Muslim men cannot do such a horrible thing to Christian girls, simply because they are Egyptian girls! And the values of the Egyptian society – not religion – tells the boy to respect and protect every girl as if she was his sister, regardless of her religion. Some Christians converted into Islam after marrying a Muslim man, true! But so many Muslims converted into Christianity too! This organization is absolutely exaggerating!
Even in the street and work place, young women are always looked upon as the sexual objects that men always desire to verbally or physically harass. What doubles the misery is that the society holds women – the victim – accountable for what the man does and blames her for being a “woman†who dared to walk in the site of men and must stomach the dire consequences of being professionally ambitious. (Dalia Ziada, Article). Your own countries women are speaking out about the same treatment. It will never get better if you do not acknowledge it. By not acknowledging it and turning your heads away, you are giving permission for it to keep happening.
[...] “Christian org to Obama: Egypt gov’t complicit in ‘raping’ Coptic girls̶… Additional R.E.A.L. Reports on Freedom for [...]
Egypt has terminal cancer and it’s going to die. If I was a gambling woman I would bet that in the next 10 years Egypt will be another Iran or worse another Afghanistan.
As to this “But so many Muslims converted into Christianity too!” Conversion away from Islam is illegal and punishable by death in Egypt.
Trafficking and the abuse of women does happen in Egypt as well as America and the rest of the West. Read the actual report below, which includes dozens of documented cases and input from Egyptian lawyers and leaders of the faith community knowledgable about the issue.
Wrong, and false facts about Egypt, and these organizations encourage wrong ideas, ask Egyptians Christians fair thinkers
Guys, wake up you are not even sure what the name of the organisation is let alone the true about what goes on in Egypt, get your facts right, name right and know that what was written in the report is 100% correct, Egypt is corrupted so is the church unfortunately! Who is Bishop Besanit to ask? Ask the girls who are raped, ask your police who turn a blind eye, and ask your constitution that allows Muslims and Islam to be superior to the rest of God’s religions!
This stuped news paper, whay you nagetive about Egypt???????????
whom paying you stuped??????????????
are you sure about this claming news????????????????
you shuld NOT live in Egypt.
All news around the world working for them own contry interest, not trying dostroing it like you guyes are you stuped?????????
Rather than going into the made-up details of these self-proclaimed “guardian-of-the-coptic-interests-in-Egypt” Group, a.k.a. International Christian Solidarity Organization, I would like to share a story which I witnessed first-hand some 6 years ago here in Cairo.
A Christian (Coptic) lady friend of mine wanted to convert to Islam. Naïve as we were then we went together to Al Azhar to register her convertion. This is how we thought it works.
Much to our surprise we were told that we have to submit – among personal ID papers – the following:
1. A police report stating her intention
2. A report from the church that they agree, that she had been talked to by a priest and that she converts out of her own free will.
My friend – being determined to change her religious denomination – asked me to come along. We went to the police station where she lives and stated her intention. A few days later we could pick-up the report, duly signed and stamped and submitted a copy to her church.
She then got to see a priest who tried to convince her that this is the wrong path and she should stay with her religion. She refused and re-iterated her intention. Rather than issuing the report the priest told her to think it over, do some soul-searching and come back in a week’s time. So she did and had after a week a 2nd lengthy discussion in the church which was joined by a second priest.
She was steadfast and insisted in receiving the report, stating that she had been talked to twice and that she insists converting to Islam. After a few phone calls in which she kept asking for this report we could finally go and pick it up.
Having had all the papers she could after 2 months go to the Al Azhar Institution and become officially a Muslema.
Now can someone enlighten me as to how a forced convertion should work under such strict rules?
~*~*~*~
What I do love though with such “humane” organizations who have only the well being of people at heart: people (women AND men) are trafficked worldwide and surely also in Egypt I assume. How come only the plight of the Coptic girls is of any interest to the point that they even try to involve Secr. of State Clinton and Pres. Obama?!?! Doesn’t say much for the organization = it means simply that all other human beings who are trafficked are second class humans and not worth of spending time for them. Why are their fellow Christian (Mexican) who get trafficked accross the border into the US of any concern to them?
What’s their interest in stirring religious animosities in Egypt? They do this in who’s interest? On who’s pay-roll are they? Why is nobody asking these logical questions?
~*~*~*~
And just for those readers who don’t know: a Muslim can marry a Christian or a Jewish woman WITHOUT the woman converting to Islam. So long as she is a believer in one of the three books.
~*~*~*~
And to come to the end I would like to cite Bishop W…’. who some years ago said in a Radio talkshow asked about the oppression of Copts in Egypt: “It is not true that Copts are singled out and oppressed, nor are the Muslims – the Egyptian people as a whole are oppressed.”
Salam
It should naturally read:
‘Why are their fellow Christian (Mexican) who get trafficked accross the border into the US NOT of any concern to them?”
Dear jjb – yr comment #4
I would take on the bet
!
Egypt and it’s people have survived hundreds and thousands of years of abuse, oppression and looting. They had the pharaos, the Mameluks, the French, the English … all kinds in between … a short break … and then America, the “invisible” occupation. Did it break them – will it break them? One could start believing it in this very difficult times.
But I’m convinced: Umm el Dunyya and its people will survive and become stronger. After all … remember Phoenix rising from the ashes?
The only condition for this to happen is that all foreign players take their fingers out of the Egyptian pie.
Egypt belongs to the Egyptian people and not to a conglomerate of interest groups and lobbies!!
Guys, don’t bother…this is must be the “christian science society organization”….it’s some bullshit organization built by certain fanatic group of Christian Egyptians who immigrated to the US and hate their mother country so much for one reason or another, and on daily basis thye publish their lies about Egypt and only Egypt…..I suggest the US government should take action about this so called organization for racism and religious fanaticism…they can not just create a lie and send the president about it, so daring …they think they live in the -no-law-land and they can just say whatever …Also I am not sure why google keep posting this organization news-post as if they’re the Associated Press or something, people around the world read google-news, so there should be some credibility
To tut – yr comment #8
Thanks for the info – I was not aware of this. One should make this widespread known so as not to give them the wrong weight. Definitely one should not help them spread their messages.
There is an organization in the USA which calls itself “Anti-Defamation League” – at first glance a good thing too. But they only care if someone says the the seemingly wrong “boo-boo” about the Zionists
(note: I’m not talking about Jews). Isn’t it a great thing how right and wrong and/or justice is ever so often sooooo selective?!?!?
Then there is the “Honest Reporting” in Canada – one wold think that they have as objective a bit more balanced media reporting in mind, right? Well they do … but only where and when it concerns the Zionists, that is to be precise: the State of Israel and its political mongering.
Some years ago I was told with utter disgust how Egypt forces its Coptic population into exile to Canada as most of the Egyptian immigrants to Canada where (back then) Copts. After a little bit of digging I found out that Canada at that time gave visa to Copts … but not to Moslems. But it was Egypt who was the culprit – makes a ton of sense, does it not? This policy changed though when it became a matter of “urgency” that the Palestinians may hopefully disapear from their homeland. Suddenly the doors of Canda and Australia (among few others) opened widely and everyone who had a certain amount in a bank account of a said country became eligible for the resident visa.
It’s amazing how things at times work out … or shuld I rather say: disgusting?
Salam
This is not true at all i am a muslim who has a lot of Christian friends males and females whom i am really admire and respect and sometimes we travel together where every one has his own religion and know what to do and never we have any argument about something related to our religion.
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To bon Bon Bon – yr comment @9
You wrote: “Ask the girls who are raped, ask your police who turn a blind eye, and ask your constitution that allows Muslims and Islam to be superior to the rest of God’s religions!”
1. The girls and women who are sexually harassed and/or raped are of all faith and “non-faith” – why is it that only Christian and/or Coptic girls concern you?
2. Why does it only bother you that the police turns a blind eye – I fully agree with you on that one – when it comes to Christian and/or Coptic girls? The rest of the victims – some 90 % !!!!!! – don’t disturb you and are none of your concern? How caring!
3. I would be most obliged if you would enlighten me and guide me to the relevant Article in the Constitution which stipulates that “Muslims and Islam [is] to be superior to the rest of God’s religions”.
Thank you in advance and
Salam
To Jose Janzala – yr “comment” #10
Two unsolicited and, therefore, free pieces of advice:
1. If you feel an uncontrollable urge to defecate why don’t you simply sit on your toilet and spare us your intellectual findings?
2. Learn at least how to spell your favorite word: it spells STUPID.
Salam
To Administration
If you tolerate gutter postings like #10 from a certain “Jose Janzala” your site will soon become trash and gutter itself and people who are interested in a dialogue, in exchange of opinions and thoughts are gone at the speed of light.
The decision is yours.
A question to all posters:
Who has an interest in continuously stirring the “religious” issue in Egypt? Who profits most of it? Who’s agenda does it serve? Who has the power and the means to agitate on large scale?
Interested in reading your thoughts.
Salam
To Eleonora:
Can an Egyptian man or woman convert freely from Islam to Chistianity , Buddism, Atheism…….?
Thanks
[...] CAIRO: An American Christian organization accused the Egyptian government of involvement in “raping and the coercive disappearance of Coptic girls and forcing them to convert to Islam†and accused Cairo of “trafficking Coptic girls and women in Egypt.†The International Christian Solidarity Organization, an American-based Christian group, sent a letter to American President Barack Obama demanding he intervene to “save†Christians in Egypt. for more click here [...]
To Jean – yr comment #22
Yes – although I’m not quite aware of how to convert to Buddism and/or Atheism. Buddists argue that theirs is not a religion but rather a “life philosophy”. I don’t know enough about Buddism so I cannot conclusively argue it. Declaring yourself an Atheist goes in the same line.
It is known that atheism is not looked at favourably in any of the three monotheist religions; that can go as far as to those crazy guys who call for the killing of those not adhering to their religion as we have seen two weeks ago with the two rabbies (from West Bank settlements) calling for the killing of all non-Jews incl. suckling babies because they might develop into enemies of Israel (extensive coverage on Al Jazeera as well as IL-Chanel 10. And I’m sure that those “good guys” exist in all three mono-religions I just don’t have an example handy.
As for Muslims who want to convert to Christianity (I’m mentioning this because I know from first-hand experience) there is in general no problem here in Egypt. This statement excludes as always the fanatic nut cases! I used to be involved in taking care of a countrymen of mine who was in jail. Often I took a lady friend with me who worked for a European church. She came with food and bible and used to pray with those she visited. Unfortunately the food was only given to those who prayed … and she was successful in convincing to my knowledge 3 Muslim men to change their religion. Nothing happened to them – not the men and not to my friend.
Frankly I don’t know of any case where a Muslim woman or man was killed because of changing his/her religion based on a court ruling. I’m sure if this were the case one could read about it in all the media. Not all that’s written in any of the three holy books gets implemented – Thanks God in this case
.
Maybe someone else can provide some info with links?
As for me personally: I couldn’t care less to which religion – if at all – a person adhers too. The character and personality is important. Religion is a very private matter and that’s how it should be and stay. Too much harm was and is inflicted in the name of any religion.
Let there be no misconception: Religions are always used as a fig leave to cover personal gread and gain, hunger for power and influence as well as land and resource gain. Best examples are e.g. in Sudan (where the “religious reasons” disappeared miraculously once the south got it’s share in the profit), Lebanon in the 70′s and 80′s (where everyone went at everyone at some point in time) et al. History is full of it.
This “religious” conflicts remind me often of the (paraphrased) old proverb: “cherchez la femme” = in this case look for the deeper reason(s) behind the fig leave of religion. It never fails!
[...] is struggling with a recent bout of sectarianism, especially after an earlier report stated an international Christian organization called on American President Barack Obama to end the [...]
To Eleanora —
This: “As for Muslims who want to convert to Christianity (I’m mentioning this because I know from first-hand experience) there is in general no problem here in Egypt.”
is a statement made in total ignorance of the struggles of Christian converts in Egypt… I know many people personally who fled the country to avoid persecution at the hands of family, community, and with a complicit government. This is MY FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE. Read “Jesus and Muhammad” (http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Muhammad-Differences-Surprising-Similarities/dp/1591852919/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258561325&sr=8-1) and try to tell me that this is a one time exception… It’s not… we hear these stories CONSTANTLY.
this comment has been removed by the moderator
To CC – yr comment #26
Your statement: “…the struggles of Christian converts in Egypt…” lacks clarity but I do assume you’re talking about Muslims who converted to Christianity (?). Did you read my comment to Jean? As I stated very clearly: “This statement [of mine and which you question] excludes as always the fanatic nut cases.” As is demonstrated in the article “Egyptian Christians sentenced to death in Muslim murder” (http://bikyamasr.com/?p=5819) we do unfortunately have such cases on BOTH sides.
See – a common denominator between this article and the likes is always that the Muslim extremists are singled out and put in the spotlight and the Christian extremists are taboo (and the Jewish ones too for that matter and to cover the whole spectrum). Or can you give a possibly reasonable and logical explanation why we never read about the xxx girls, women and men who converted to Islam and then … disappeared behind the walls of churches and/or monasteries (which are off-limits to the police and/or government) or are held incomunicado at unknown places by their (Christian) families? Can you explain why the police never follows-up on such cases or at best when they gain enormeous publicity like it was the case with Wafa?
As for your literature recommendation: we all do know cases personally – from both sides. The bone which I pick on and which sits sour in my stomach is that we ALWAYS hear only one side. But every coin has two sides and for fairness and justice the both sides have to be highlighted … or we should be quiet about the whole disaster.
I have fought in the late 90′s for a diffaming article to be removed from the national (European) site of an international “Human Rights Group” with respect to the case of two Egyptian (Christian) girls. They stated in an affidavit that they didn’t pass Cairo University mid-term verbal (medical) exams because of their Christian belief and could, therefore, not continue their studies. After passing though the written exams they were re-admitted but they LOST their state-subsidy for studying. Only after I proved conclusively that this story is pure fabrication and that there is no state-subsidy to study for ANYONE (Christian or Muslim) they removed this lie from their website in order to avoid legal actions. It came as a surprise to me that most of their staff was of that European state and of the Jewish faith.
Or take the case of Hani Nazeer – he is since one year in prison without any official charges leveled at him. His crime? He critized the “aggressive Islamisation AS WELL AS the political influence of the leadership of the Coptic Church”. But all one hears outside Egypt is that this man sits in prison because he is Christian (Coptic)!! Interesting how facts are distorted when they serve a (foreign?) agenda – and nobody to check the facts although these are information which are very easy to come by.
Yes – we hear certain stories constantly and other stories are swept under rugs. Those stories under the rug are the ones which interest me.
Just a general remark: I do refuse profoundly to embark on critizising and/or smearing any religion resp. their holy books.
But I do critizise harshly the distortions and distorted applications and interpretations by the “people” for personal motives may they be political, financial or personal gains.
To CC
I forgot one detail with respect to the case of Hani Nazeer who sits without trial since one year in jail. There are approximately 14,000 (fourteen thousand!) people in jail without trial under the emergency law (acc. to arabic network for human rights information). Amazing that he is singled out as THE case … “honit soit qui mal y pense”. For those who don’t speak French: “Shamed be anyone who thinks evil”.
I just came accross this article in Alternet.org “Christian Right Is ‘Trolling for Assassins’” (http://www.alternet.org/story/144054/rachel_maddow_interview_with_former_evangelist_frank_schaeffer%3A_christian_right_is_%27trolling_for_assassins%27?page=entire) and it’s kind of frightening.
Why is it that this self-proclaimed “guardian of lifes” (ICSO) does not bother with this real threat(s)? Because it is uttered and spread by their own (Christian) people???
[...] Christian org to Obama: Egypt gov’t complicit in “raping†Coptic girls [...]
Comment removed by moderator
NOTE: we do not publish comments linking to a string of articles. One or two is okay, but not more than that. Thanks.
To the Adiministrator:
I was not aware of any such rules – it would be helpful if you publish your rules in order for the participants to be able to adhere to them.
Then I just give the readers two links which obviously are permissible going by your above comment. And who knows … maybe we even read one day about this horrendous “culture of killing all non-Jews†in Bikya Masr?
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/opinion/?id=35703
Kill Enemy Children: Jewish Edict
http://islam-west.com/2009/11/rabbi-yitzhak-shapiro-kill-gentile-babies-children.html
Rabbi Yitzhak Shapiro: We Can Kill Gentile Babies And Children
And where is the outcry of the world???? Ah – these are not some fanatic nutwing Muslims and/or Christians who call for the murdering of the Jews … that’s probably why it is not allowed to be of any interest to the world!â€
Salam
How does Bikya Masr classify an article as “most popular” ? Is it by the number of comments or the number of visitors, and how often is the “most popular” list updated?
I do’t understand whey people are very old this is the time that every one are equal
naw a time I leave in Ehtiopia I heared every day this kinde of news or I want know in Egypt “is there democracy”"
we love Egyptian coptic people they are our brather and sister this is crame dont warry coptic peaple your cantry is in heaven be strong
Lets leave this in Gods’ Hands. And i think we should protest equal rights for all Egyptians instead of just for Christian girls. Consent should be given by H.H. first, before any more letters are sent to the president because he isn’t too happy.
all what is mentioned is true and i can give you names (lawrance for example) of the abducted christian coptic females i am a copt from egypt we don’t have our rights here the conistitution mentions in it’s second subject that islam is the principale source of the laws so the constitution and the law and also the government are corrupted the muslims hate us more than any one can imagine they killed 8 christians after the mass of the birth feast in nagaa hamady and it isn’t the first time that happens we are hated in our own country because of islam and muslims i am afraid that egypt will be in the next 10 years at maximum an islamic state with no place for any christian copt we stayed here for 2000 years 600 years before islam today we have a fact leave the country or be a martyr
i lived in egypt cairo for about 2 years since 2007 to 2008. i witness but islam was murderd for many christian people with out any resin. one time when i was walked along the path . i saw to man are fighting. one is christian and anothere one is christian and the muslims gorup came there they hit him by nife. i wa s complitly shoked by that things. i understand after that how far are they living the muslim people