Coptic leader: Int’l conference on violence against Copts in Egypt a must for rights groups
Dec 3rd, 2009 | By Bikya Masr Staff | Category: Coptic Christianity, Egypt, News, Religion
CAIRO: Prominent Coptic Lawyer Mamdouh Ramzy, called on all media, journalists, Egyptian and international human rights activists, to attend the first International Conference to Stop the Violence Against Copts,” which will be held in Cairo, on December 5. His statement comes as Christians in Egypt continue to complain of widespread injustice and prejudice against the minority group.
Calls on the government to amend a houses of worship law, in discussion for over a decade, continue to fall on deaf ears, Coptic leaders argue. Ramzy has said that the conference will bring light to the ongoing struggle facing the Coptic community in Egypt and will help promote a new path of “justice and equality” between the Christian minority and the Muslim majority.
Ramzy noted that the conference will discuss all aspects of the “Coptic issue and aggressions against the Copts, which moves from one province to another without any legal or judicial intervention.”
Rights groups in the country have long documented instances of violence between the Coptic and Muslim communities, but George Ishaq, a leading activist and Coptic scholar, is a firm believer in tolerance and understanding. He believes that until Egyptians understand that they are all citizens of the same country, nothing will change.
“Until we start to believe and act as if we were all part of the same country, sectarianism, bad words and violence will continue,” he began. “I have spoken to many groups of people who come up to me and thank me for what I say. It is nice to know that people are taking to heart the idea that we are all Egyptians and live under the same horrific conditions.”
Ramzy called on all human rights organizations and advocacy groups in Egypt or abroad, particularly among the Egyptian citizens living abroad including Copts abroad, and all the various civil society institutions and political parties, opinion makers, intellectuals and politicians, to attend the conference, which he described as ” the international conference to discuss all issues related to the Copts in Egypt.”
Coptic Christians are the largest Christian minority in the Middle East and comprise between 6 and 10 percent of Egypt’s 80 million people. Ramzy believes that through a greater understanding and debate, Christians and Muslims can begin to “mend the wounds” of decades of volatility.
Ramzy, earlier this year, announced his intention to run in the next presidential election scheduled for 2011. He is the first Copt to take such step.
**reporting by Mohamed Abdel Salam
BM
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Wow, one more round of the Coptic self centered and self absorbed propaganda, can we have a single day without a Copt screaming about discrimination, those who claim to be Coptic activates need to remember that they are Egyptian and the wellbeing of the Copts are inspirable from the general conditions of Egypt
The following is a list for SOME of the Egyptian problem, if they care to be Egyptians
Egypt suffers from:
The worst dictatorship in modern history
One of the highest corruption levels worldwide
10% of the population has Hepatitis C (more than Coptic population)
10% lives in shantytowns (more than Coptic population)
25% are unemployed
2 Million Homeless street kids
20 % lives under the poverty line
15% live without clean water or swage system
850,000 unlawful prisoners
I guess all these problems are poor country issues that do not sell well to the European and American Grants organization
Mohajer Masry
Mohajer…did it never occur to you that Copts suffer from this IN ADDITION to being treated as second-class citizens in their own country by their own people!?
“self centered and self absorbed propaganda”? Have you stopped to verify facts throughout the country before you make a claim like that? Unfortunately that doesn’t seem to be the case. Based on your argument, the cries of discrimination throughout the US and Europe by Muslims is most certainly self-centered and self-absorbed–is no other country’s economy suffering?
You are correct with regards to the issues plaguing Egypt at the moment, however, that does not justify keeping a people quiet from fighting for their rights!
Dim,
I wish you guys are fighting for all of Egyptians but the facts speak differently, please review all the Coptic wittings in the last few years … the vast majority are only addressing the Coptic problems and nothing about the Egyptian general problems.
Mohajer Masry
Not sure exactly who you’re referring to as “you guys.” If I, as a Copt, am to be included in this “you guys”…then you’re sadly misinformed.
Mohajer…Copts will write about fighting for their rights…just as Muslims write about fighting for their rights…you seem to be referring to writings by Coptic human rights associations…that would the only thing they would write about because that is their mission…again, just any other Muslim human rights organization would only write about defending Muslim human rights!
That does not mean that there are no Copts that are writing or working very hard to help alleviate the extremely difficult situation facing all Egyptians at that moment? I, being one of numerous Copts that are working daily to help provide relief and support to Egyptians, personally take offense to that.
You should really check your “facts” again.
No need to be offended, the facts are there …. Let’s not go too far
The subject of this article Mr. Mamdouh Ramzy, please review the announcement of his candidacy for the presidency of Egypt, is this a proper announcement for someone who wants to be a president for country with 94% Moslem with all these problems?
As long you are working in elevating the suffering of the Egyptians, What is the percentage of the American grants that went to Coptic organization was used to humanitarian vs. human rights activities and how much of that humanitarian aid was given to Muslims.
Do you know of any Coptic humanitarian organization that helped Egyptians during major disasters where the victims mainly Muslims?
How many articles were published regarding the slaughter of the chickens Vs what was written about the slaughter of the pigs?
These are some few examples for the Copts attitude toward Egypt and Egyptians
Ps. I have no ax to grind with Christians and Copts, I went to Catholic school and learned Engineering with two of the best Coptic professors in Egypt …… but facts are facts
Mohajer Masry
So when Copts receive targeted aggression you are telling them they must do nothing because Egypt has other problems that are more important than them? In the past few weeks when Coptic shops were being burned, looted, and vandalized you are telling them they should just shut-up because unemployment is high?
You say you have nothing against Copts, however there is no reason for someone to call the attempt of a minority group to protect themselves “self centered and self absorbed propaganda,” unless they are a bigot.
If I were to burn down a mosque and spit in the faces of muslims in a country where they were a minority, and they protested would you call them selfish? Would you show a similar disdain for their demand for respect and existence because there is homelessness and poverty, or do you only show this amount of disgust when people different than you stand up for themselves?
Ed,
Actually, I personally encourage everyone to stand for their rights as a minority living in USA, I understand these issues and feeling but I know where my issues relate to the bigger picture in my state and country.
What I am talking about is the pre Madonna, self centered and self absorbed attitude expressed by the Egyptian Copts and even worse by American Copts, they want everything in Egyptian life to revolve around their issues and they forget that you can’t squeeze a dry lemon,
Without Democracy and prosperity to the whole country, their case is doomed.
Mohajer Masry
The Egyptian (Muslims, Copts and minorities) are all together suffering from the same Tyrant, corruption…etc. Beside all the above suffering, Cop ts have added suffering from discrimination, violence against them…etc. They are not self centered they have a legitimate grievance.
I predict that under pressure from the European and the American tax payers, they will have to cut their aid to Egypt. If this is not good enough for the Egyptian government to change its course. I am afraid that what happened in KOSOVO ( the American liberated the Muslims) might happen in Egypt to liberate the Copts and other minorities and establish free society under responsible leadership.
[...] reports on the Coptic community’s request for “all media, journalists, Egyptian and international human rights activists, to attend the [...]
Charles,
I guess you need to check few relevant facts
European and American AID is about 1% of Egypt GDP
Kosovo is about 1.8 Million Vs Egypt is about 80 Million
Kosovo is 88% Muslims Vs Egypt 6% Christians including Copts
Finally as for us American, we learned our lesson about getting involved in Middle Eastern problems beside the important fact that Egypt does not have enough Oil to attract us.
Now, do you see where your plan falls short …!
Mohajer Masry
Despite what many people tmight hink. The US is truly interested in spreading Democracy, Freedom and decent values to sensitive areas like the Middle East. By helping responsible intellectuals Egyptians in taking command of Egypt, eventualy will benefit both Egypt the US in the long run. It is a win/win situation.
Perhaps, just possibly, Egypts Coptic Christians are struggling against centuries of Islamic imposed dhimmitude, as evidenced by the comments of Al-Damanhuri, a seventeenth century head of Al-Azhar University in Cairo, the most prestigious center for learning in the Muslim world:
“… just as the dhimmis are prohibited from building churches, other things also are prohibited to them. They must not assist an unbeliever against a Muslim … raise the cross in an Islamic assemblage … display banners on their own holidays; bear arms … or keep them in their homes. Should they do anything of the sort, they must be punished, and the arms seized. … The Companions [of the Prophet] agreed upon these points in order to demonstrate the abasement of the infidel and to protect the weak believer’s faith. For if he sees them humbled, he will not be inclined toward their belief, which is not true if he sees them in power, pride, or luxury garb, as all this urges him to esteem them and incline toward them, in view of his own distress and poverty. Yet esteem for the unbeliever is unbelief.”
————–
Dhimmitude. Is this what the peace, love and tolerance of Islam is all about??
~The Infidel Alliance
Dear Charles – yr comment #11
You say: “The US is truly interested in spreading Democracy, Freedom and decent values to sensitive areas like the Middle East.”
If your statement would be correct could you come you come up with a stringent argument as to why the polit-US is holding all the tyrrants in their seats resp. helps them to get there in the first place? Democracy and true freedom are the last things on their minds as it would be diametric opposed to their interests as well as to the interests of regional powers like Israel.
Interested to read your thoughts.
To Mohajer – yr comment #5
Do you have any explanation as to why Mamdouh Ramzy (a lawyer!) announces his intention to run for presidency FULL WELL KNOWING that this is thanks to accepting the ammendments to the constitution impossible?
I wonder what kind of a lawyer he is (no disrespect) and what his true intentions are? Is it that the Copts can then cry “discrimination”?
And if this is the reason would anyone then be allowed to see or know that the vast majority of Egyptian citizens (Christians AND Moslems) can simply not run for presidency as the rules set forth in the ammendments are taylor-made and exclude them?
Just wondering …
Hi Eleonora,
One part of USA mission statement is to spread freedom and Democracy. They have to deal with the rest of the world including these Tyrants, and will not topple them unless they constitute a clear and present danger.
Mistakes were done, but Iraq is a democratic country now, and its people are free.
If all countries of the world are democratic and free, we are not going to have the current problems.
In summary, Israel is the only democratic country in the Middle East. President Sadat could have created peace in the Middle East 30 years ago, but the rest of the Arabs resisted. Until now, the Palestinians are not ready for peace, and still fighting among each other. The Arab request that Israel stop developing itself and care about its citizens, until the Arab gets there act together and catch up with the with the rest of the world. Israel recently made important computer software development, while we are still debating to enter the bathroom with right foot first or the left foot.
Our society has problem with logic and reasoning. For example, we see women as a creature that provokes temptation, and see that the west is the cause of all of our problems, but we don’t see ourselves as weak, and afraid to admit it. How could we survive without science, education, freedom, democracy…etc?
Have a nice evening,
Dear #15 Charles Darwin,
Nice post.
Sometimes the truth is hard for people to embrace, especially when it challenges their traditional beliefs.
People like you deserve the Medal of Truth, because what you say is a truth for all people, not just Egyptian Muslims.
Many thanks!
~ The Infidel Alliance
TO all Egyption, stop this stupied argument/ conversation and get off your (fat *ss) and do some thing usfull .
just aske your selfes:
Can you feed your self now? are you now 100% growing WEAT&CORN to feed all Egyptin?
are blood Iraq, Plastinian and Labnan dry yet? are your streets clean from human&anther west?!!!!!!!
You will never get ahead long as you setting accross each other only by falthy mind/ heart, insted put your hand together and start (Feed your selfes by growing your own food first with out help from any of G5+1).
Hant: “discrimination, democratic”
1- Nuclear Energy in IRAN for Midcal/ human used vs Nuclear BOM in Diamona Plastinian land call israil.
2- war in iraq determin one hours after bush fals/ fraud election year 2000.
3- Labnan see the rusalt of some nerow mind indveduals.
4- G5+1 loves to see you guys like this way!!!!!! all of you forget (1948 war, 1956 war, 1967 war) and 1973 war, you are lucky and by god help with real hounest egyption inside/ out side and front lin NOT what we see today.?
5-I know some group here and there working for mosad/ CIA to help them unstablize the middle east all the time, one after anther, and when and where to switch the problem to satesfy them agenda and them own interest needs.
6-G5+1 having planing for you by greating group in each country for deteration/ disconstactive and do what them can not do” by indirect way”.
7- Whom start building walls around the world (German walls, Wall in IRAQ, Wall in Pastin land and very soon by new egyption people it will anther wall by any one of G5+1.
8-every country having dirty clothing and problems, but only EGYPT the country having group inside& out side you like get attensions or get pay to do dirty work for CIA/ MOUSAD.
wak-up, and start by your self.
I hope god give all of you the light not only for your head but also in your hearts.
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