The persecution of Copts in Egypt
Dec 22nd, 2009 | By bibrahim | Category: Featured
ALEXANDRIA: Egypt has the largest Christian minority of any Arab country, who are mainly of the Coptic denomination. Since the Arab invasion of Egypt in the 7th century, Egypt’s Muslims and Christians have lived in relative peace except for the occasional outburst of conflict. The situation of Egyptian Copts receives great publicity abroad, particularly in the US, where there are several groups that aim to raise awareness of what they call the “discrimination against the Coptic minorityâ€. Among these as the US Copts Association and the National Coptic Assembly in Virginia. These organizations work to bring to light what they see are cases of Coptic persecution, in some cases asking the US President to take action.
Bikya Masr spoke to several Copts and Muslims living in Egypt about the Coptic situation, all of whom requested anonymity. The fact that persecution does exist is a consensus among all Copts, whereas Muslim views vary greatly.
The US Copts Association describes the 14 centuries of Islamic rule in Egypt “centuries of discrimination and persecutionâ€, whereas Islamic history books maintain that Christians enjoyed unprecedented equality under Muslim rule. One Copt says “history is all about points of view. To get an unbiased view, you have to read both sides. I think it really depends on who was ruler at any particular time. In any case, it was definitely better than Roman rule.â€
His friend concurs: “The rule of Amr ibn el Ass that started with the Arab invasion was a good era for the Copts, but many of the rulers who followed were truly unjust. However, I think the worst time for Copts in Egypt’s recent history was during Anwar Sadat’s presidency.â€
Sadat had exiled Pope Shenouda III to the Monastery of St. Bishoy, and imprisoned many bishops, priests and leading Coptic figures. A month after the presidential decree to exile the Pope, Sadat was assassinated. Pope Shenouda was subsequently released by President Hosni Mubarak.
One Muslim citizen disagrees with this assessment. She says “Sadat did not have any discrimination policy against the Copts in particular. Don’t forget that he also imprisoned the Muslim Brothers and socialists. It definitely wasn’t any anti-Christian policyâ€.
We spoke of the forms of discrimination Copts suffer in Egypt. Morris Sadek, president of the National Coptic Assembly in Virginia, recently said the Copts of today’s Egypt are in a similar position to that of the Jews in the Holocaust. Referring to this comparison, one Copt told Bikya Masr, “obviously, that is quite an exaggeration. We’re walking together right now, aren’t we? The Holocaust was minimal compared to what happened to us during Roman rule, but to liken today to the Holocaust is a huge exaggeration. The Holocaust was a state policy. There is no anti – Christian state policy today, and if some people act through violence, they are breaking the law. For example, if a Christian is murdered, it is like any crime and classified legally as murder. Any Copt in America who voices his opinion is not necessarily representing all Copts of Egypt and is not employed by or representative of the Churchâ€.
“Whatever the case, though, there is no fear about the future of the Coptic Church. It’s been through much worse times and survivedâ€.
Speaking about today’s forms of discrimination, he tells me “I think the President has done an excellent job, truth be told. The problems that face Copts usually occur when they encounter lower level officials in the hierarchy. Like, if a Copt wants a license to open a shop, they employee in charge of issuing it may intentionally slow down the process for any reason. Other forms of unfair treatment may occur in university staff appointments. I knew a Christian girl who was in the top ten of her graduating class at the Faculty of Pharmacy, but she was passed over for a post and someone else with a lower grade got it instead. Usually, this also happens because some fanatic employee stalls the paperworkâ€.
A Muslim doctor says, “I understand what Copts mean when they say they are not given important and sensitive posts, but does that mean the Muslims are getting them? Corruption is endemic now. Not even Muslims can get the post or job they deserve. It’s all about how much power and connections you have. A Muslim university professor will use all the tricks to give the post to his Muslim relative, and the same is true for Christians. The same is true for the Air Force, Army and Police. Acceptance is not about your competence. It’s about who you know. It’s an Egyptian problem that encompasses the Copts.â€
One of the very common accusations leveled at the Egyptian government is that “Christians cannot even repair a toilet in a church without presidential approvalâ€. This was described by one Copt as “an exaggeration. They don’t mean repairing, but changing a bathroom for example. And such an issue doesn’t need to reach the president. It’s always resolved at a lower level in the hierarchy. The real problem is in building new churches, and that is because of the whims of many officials in the chain. If the problem persists, and we take it up to higher levels, it’s usually resolved.â€
One Muslim university student expressed his confusion at the church issue. “What is wrong with any restrictions on churches? They are much fewer in number, so the churches should be fewer than the mosques!â€
This Copt also spoke of “unfair treatment that sometimes occurs to Christian students at university, especially in oral exams. I’ve never experienced it myself, but I’ve seen it happen.â€
Another told Bikya Masr about a form of mental persecution. “My father was at work at the hospital, and we were nearing Christmas. He saw several posters encouraging Muslims not to congratulate Christians on their holidays. My father was so agitated he photographed it to show it to us! Even so, all his Muslim friends called us to wish us a merry Christmasâ€
However, most moderate Muslims maintain that “hard line Muslims who tell us not to wish Christians a merry Christmas also tell us that Mother’s Day, Valentine’s Day and even the Prophet’s birthday are innovations and forbiddenâ€.
This Copt maintains that “I am not upset. I don’t deny some discrimination, but this is God’s will. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other one also. Who am I to defend God? God knows what He is doing.â€
Discussing sectarian violence, one told me “I think a lot of the violence in the south starts as tar (revenge in Arabic), where someone happens to be a Christian. Then it evolves into sectarianism. But I think if a Christian person attempts to take revenge, as is the custom, it is more likely to end in sectarianism. However, the 2006 riots here in Alexandria were started by Muslims to a great extent.â€
This clashes with many Muslims opinions that say that the “Muslim violence in Muharram Bey was in response to an offensive play staged by some Christians that was insulting to Islamâ€
He concedes that “if the Christians did stage such a play, then they were wrong. But let’s be reasonable. The response to a word is a word, not violence. Sadly, all of us as Egyptians have a culture of violence. If everyone behaves in a peaceful manner and followed legitimate avenues like the family of Marwa el Sherbini in Germany, who was killed because of her religion, they will get their rights, just like Marwa’s familyâ€.
“In civilized areas like Alexandria or Cairo, there is no real danger of my home being attacked because I am a Christian. In the south, it is a lot easier to attack someone, but after a single attack, the police get involved and form a constant presence around all the Christian homes and it doesn’t escalate. So in the end, we just try to forget it and live our lives as usual. I think the police do a good job of stabilizing the situation, but if a fanatic Muslim officer is involved, he can get a bit lazy
One of the US Copts Association’s demands is that religious affiliation be removed from national ID cards, to prevent discrimination at job appointments. In response, a Coptic student shrugs and replies nonchalantly “It may help a little. But it will still be obvious from a person’s name. In Europe, they know how many Muslims are in each country, so that’s not different from identifying Christians here. It’s not the solution anyhow. The solution is for all Egyptian citizens, be they Muslim, Christian, Bahaii or Jew, to receive their full rights as citizens. As long as that happens, I have no problem with religion on my ID.â€
**The Christmas mentioned here is the one on January 7.
BM
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[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by E seymour and Bikya Masr, Baher Ibrahim. Baher Ibrahim said: http://bikyamasr.com/?p=6693 Persecution of Copts in Egypt. [...]
[...] also highlights increasing Coptic persecution ahead of Christmas and the U.S. Copts Association’s efforts to pressure the Obama administration [...]
i dont know what the copts of america want to reach? copts life in egypt is very good if compared with the muslim life in china for example. it is much better than the bahaii life in egypt. they are 10% of the population and taking same right as the rest of the population but very few, should they take more rights than the other 90% so that the american copts be happy? no one take a position in the army or the university, or the police unless one of hois parents is there, whether muslim or christian, should the corruption be applied on muslims and not applied on christian because they are christians. i am a mulsim and i have suffered alot from corruption. it is not anti christianity in most of the cases, it is just corruption.
I believe it is more fair and reasonable to say that any Egyptian is persecuted as long as they live within Egyptian boundaries. It is not a matter of religion, but it is a matter of religions (whatever they may be) against a corrupt system (and/ or regime).
Also to refer to Copts, a Copt friend of mine told me recently that the word persecution is way too strong of a word to use to describe the situation. Instead, there is mere (and prevalent) preferential treatment towards Muslims in Egypt.
“Sadat had exiled Pope Shenouda III to the Monastery of St. Bishoy, and imprisoned many bishops, priests and leading Coptic figures.”
Why doesn’t BM have the courage to address it as it was – namely that Sadat (to be clear I have no lost love for this traitor!) had enough of the incitement by Baba Shenouda? Enough of the pamphlets calling on the Christians to boycott Muslims, not to work for them, but if they have to then to damage their business the best they can and so on and so forth? Why don’t you, Bikya Masr, paint the picture with a more evenhanded brush? Any particular interest?
As the previous commentators said: it’s the corruption, the inefficiency of the government employees, the red tape which needs “greasing”, the inability of anyone to make meaningful decisions, the friend of a friend who knows a friend in a higher up place who can find a job for the son … etc.
Go try to get a license as a Muslim. Any idea how miserable they are treated if they don’t pay? An architect friend of ours waited for 3 years and 8 months for a building license in an area to be developed. Only after he was tired of the games and paid LE 35,000 (!!!) in bribe he got the license within 2 days. Do you think he could go to the newspaper and cry “discrimination because I’m a Muslim”?
Copts have at least their “defenders” abroad for whatever motives and our tyrannic regime has a lot of interest in keeping up the “good” face towards the West – although everybody knows about all the dirty deals that go on behind the facade. The same applies to the Muslimbrothers. They are the little “white ghost” which gets undusted from time to time to scare some well-meaning reformers and behind the scenes they sit together and arrange their lifes with the government. Look at the recent elections where the reformists within the MB lost to the hardliners. Ever cared to ask why??? Not worth it? Not allowed to?
Did anyone ever tried to release a Coptic employee simply because he is not fit for the job or because he did something really wrong at work demanding his release? Hell breaks loose because the first thing he does is run to the … not the church, no … the authorities and cries: “discrimination because I’m a Copt”. The authority then intervenes and only if there is unmistakable proof can the termination be upheld. Whereas if it’s a Muslim he is simply out of the job. End of the story. We all know that.
The Muslims have nobody. Actually ALL of the Egyptians have nobody! Because none of these self-appointed guardians of human rights from within and from the West have a true interest in solving the core of the problem which is the dictarorial regime and the oppression of ALL Egyptians.
So why don’t you, Bikya Masr, at least stop blowing in this “sectarian” horn and don’t add fuel to the fire of the regime?
But I guess we can repeat these simple and abvious facts until we go blue in the face … the next article about the “poor and opressed Copts” is already written.
Dear Eleonora,
Thank you for your comment. I think you are being far too harsh in your assessment of the article and it’s writer. Your points on endemic corruption affecting Muslim and Copt are all true – but you will notice they are already mentioned in this article. It is also mentioned that it is an Egyptian problem.
It has been also made quite clear by Christians interviewed in this article that there is no anti Copt government policy.
And yes, I have seen a Coptic employee fired because he was unfit for the job. He did believe it was because he was a Copt, but no hell broke loose. He just left in silence.
Finally, I think you are a bit unfair to say that I am “blowing into the sectarian horn and adding fuel”. The very point of this article was to give a BALANCED perspective and refute many of the allegations made in the US by Coptic associations; namely the “can’t repair a toilet with presidential approval” accusation and the common allegations of refusal of appointments in the army etc.. because they are Christians. You will also notice a refutation of the ridiculous claims of Morris Sadek by Copts themselves, and the final paragraph gives an example of how the US Copts association’s “demands” are so out of touch with real Copts. Check out websites by these organizations and you will see what blowing into the sectarian horn is really like.
I do thank you for your comment, but I request that you take these points into consideration.
Have a nice day
Dear Baher
Thanks for the feed-back – it’s always nice to see the author taking an interest in the comments he gets for his article. While I do admit that I might have been a bit harsh I must also admit that it simply goes “slightly on my nerves” to see that the other side of the coin is never ever mentioned. Not even the reasons which led to the arrest of Baba Shenouda. We tiptoe around the issue of the other side in order not to … yeah, not to what? Not to rock the boat?
While we agree (I guess) that the government is bending backwards over to accommodate the wishes of its master(s) – and all for the wrong reasons! it doesn’t really have tolerance of any kind and equality at heart – we should not close our eyes to the fact that as much as we have crazy fanatics on the Muslim side we equally have them on the Coptic side. Both in my opinion should get a one-way-ticket to the moon.
Being a “chawagaya” of Swiss origin I have come accross a lot of – how shall I say? – sneeking up to me on the Christian alley? I think that would describe it best. One wants to facilitate my paperwork at the Mugamma because – as he said – “after all I’m Christian too” (“ignoring” the fact that my papers were incomplete!) and another wants to give me a very special agreement (against the Muslim shop owner) because he is Christian too. He pointed assertively at the cross tatooed on his hand. My remark that it will harm the owner was brushed away with “we Christians have to stick together”. And so on. All of them are always heartbroken (and ignored me from there on) when I revealed at some point that I’m a Muslema
. I always love the faces they make after the “revelation” 
.
What I would love to read is how our beautifully dictatorial government fuels and exploits these existing low level frictions between the religions in order to keep the commoneers busy. And how much the Coptic fundamentalists are equally to blame for the existing mis-trust between the religions. The normal people on both sides of the divide agree that life would be much better without the fundamentalists in both camps.
I wish you have a nice day too, best regards,
Eleonora
Dear Eleonora,
Thanks again for your comment. I agree that fundamentalists on both sides are equally to blame. I would appreciate it if you would direct me to a reliable online source regarding Sadat’s exile of Pope Shenouda and his reasons.
Eleonora,
Your hatred for Christians and Christianity is skewing your opinion and your facts. There is no historical evidence that Pope Shenouda was sending out pamphlets to damage Muslim businesses. Such a pamphlet would go against the very pillars of Christianity, so even though some ‘Copts’ may suggest something similar, the Pope would never even think along those lines.
I agree that corruption is a big issue in Egypt. I agree that Copts may often experience such corruption and blame it on religion. I agree that Muslims may favor Muslims, and Copts may favor Copts when it comes to jobs, but I wouldn’t therefore dismiss all Coptic complaints. We are Egyptian just like everyone else. There is no reason we should not have FULLY equal rights. I love the people that post and say we have almost equal rights, and therefore there is no reason to complain. ALMOST is no good. We are Egyptian, we have always been, this is our country just as it is yours. As such, we are entitled to the same rights.
Yes, maybe I can renew a toilet without presidential approval, but why should I applaud Egypt for that? Just because I can fix a toilet, does that mean I should shut up and be happy now?! No, until Copts can build freely build Churches, no one can claim we have full religious freedom. And if you ask me, that is government policy.
I’m not a big user of the word persecution, and I’m not aligned with the US Copts which I agree often exaggerate everything. But at the same time, I don’t like it when people dismiss all Coptic concerns as though they were nothing. There is an issue, a significant issue – it must be addressed, and it must be solved.
Let’s promote dialogue, not kill it.
I do agree with you on one thing though. Life would be better without the fundamentalists on both sides of the camps.
__________________________________________________________________________________
Baher,
Thanks for the article. I appreciate that you were trying to give a balanced perspective and I think its exactly what we need more of – discussion.
Beshoy
Dear Baher – yr reply #6
I assume that you agree that Sadat (especially) in his final months went berserk. The reasons which led ultimately to the arrest of Baba Shehouda are speculation; most likely they were trivial after a long build-up. “The straw that breaks the camel’s back” so to say.
The pamphlet I was talking about is not available online; it dates back to the mid 60′s. Most Uni-student of those days will be able to confirm it as it circulated discreetly among them (handed out by the “normal” Coptic Uni-students). If you have access to the State’s archive you should be able to dig it out.
To BG – yr comment #7
Good morning BG – why is it that if someone doesn’t agree with one’s opinion one is always accused of “hate”? Due to lack of arguments? I have no reason whatsoever. Before I believe in any religion I’m an ardent believer and fighter for the UDHR. Having said that —
What I do reject is the notion of the (by the government fuelled) so called sectarian violence. While I do know that it exists though – it does exist from BOTH sides. And that’s my bone I’m picking on. We’re always only fed one side of the coin (reminds me very much of the Zionist propaganda). Anyone who lives in Egypt and follows the news has to agree with me unless he/she is bias and/or blind on both eyes. The other side is always kept either hush-hush or brushed under the carpet.
As for the pamphlet which was not only against businesses but which outlined the behaviour towards Muslims in general: everybody knows how (negatively) active the Pope was before becoming “the Pope”. (As I said before, just check it out with people who are around the 60′s today unless you have access to the State’s archive.) Some live more comfortably in ignoring this simple fact, some have no problem in admitting it and reconizing this as a fact of the past. And it is undeniable that some nutwings from the Coptic side are still adhering to it – as much as the nutwings of the Muslim side are adhering to their nonsense. Closing the eyes in front of these simple facts is just window dressing and doesn’t help, if one is truly interested in attempting to solve any issue.
While I do absolutely agree that discrimination of any kind and for any reason is totally unacceptable I personally think that it would be much more productive if we would ALL fight the oppression and discrimination against ALL Egyptian people which is handed out on daily basis by the government. After all, aren’t we all (I include myself although I’m originally Swiss) first and foremost Egyptians?! Instead we allow the government to re-direct our energies.
I do sign to your closing line: “Let’s promote dialogue, not kill it.”. But by accusing someone of “hatred” because you don’t like the content of the message you do exactly what you say you don’t want to do: you kill any meaningful dialogue.
Have a good day
PS As for the US Copts – Muslims are always urged to bring their fundamentals and their distorted views and behaviour under control … why is it not possible to create a counter voice to these so called “US Copts”? Does truly nobody realize how much they help in promoting anti-Coptic sentiments? It often reminds me (again the analogy) of the Zionists who fuel anti-Judaism. Just a fact which you and I can’t do much about … I guess.
By the way, Beshoy – being the Christian holy season I just would like to add an after thought with respect to discrimination:
You say to have almost the same rights as a minority is not good enough – I tend to agree with you with some reservations. I assume you would agree with me that the governmental structure and functioning of Switzerland and Egypt are “slightly” different …??
In Switzerland there are no official religious Jewish, Muslim or Coptic holidays – and believe me there will not be any in the foreseable future – as opposed to Egypt where the Copts (and with them the Muslims) enjoy this right. And mind you the Jewish and Muslim community is comparable big. The Swiss minorities accept this “discrimination” without making a fuss as everything else is more or less even handed and – MOST IMPORTANT – people are not politically and otherwise oppressed.
In case you’re we don’t “talk” to each other in January let me wish you a Merry Christmas already now and my best wishes for a Happy New Year.
Eleonora
Eleonora,
Thanks for the reply. Frankly, I agree, we must fight ALL oppression. That does not mean we should ignore or dismiss Coptic oppression in order to fight everything else. That means we should consider and discuss it, and then expand our scope and discuss all other forms of oppression. To be honest, I did not get this sense from your messages. By dismissing the Coptic issues as exaggerated, this is only further fueling the fire, and making Copts defensive.
As for your statement –
PS As for the US Copts – Muslims are always urged to bring their fundamentals and their distorted views and behaviour under control … why is it not possible to create a counter voice to these so called “US Copts� Does truly nobody realize how much they help in promoting anti-Coptic sentiments? It often reminds me (again the analogy) of the Zionists who fuel anti-Judaism. Just a fact which you and I can’t do much about … I guess.
Even though I personally take offense to your use of Zionists as a analogy, I will not address it further. I don’t think its a fair comparison as the Muslim fundamentals that are urged to remain under control are the ones who use violent means to achieve their ends. If any fundamental has extreme views but does not harm others or limit their rights, I don’t think too many people will be complaining. The US Copts do exaggerate many of the issues, but thats the extent of it. I find the comparison a little far fetched.
As for my comment on your hatred for Christians and Christianity, I apologize. I should not and can not make that judgement without knowing you. I did find the find the following statement offensive though –
All of them are always heartbroken (and ignored me from there on) when I revealed at some point that I’m a Muslema . I always love the faces they make after the “revelation†.
It definitely doesn’t reflect good feelings to Copts, even if you didn’t mean it.
Thanks for the Christmas wishes.
Beshoy