The truth about Rachel Corrie’s death
Mar 7th, 2010 | By David Bedein and Melissa Goraj and Sarah Hindman | Category: Op-ed
In the March, 2010 “Israeli Court to hear testimonies in unlawful killing of activist Rachel Corrie†article, the death and hearing of American citizen, International Solidarity Movement member Rachel Corrie who is said to been crushed to death by an IDF bulldozer on March 16, 2003. Corrie’s family alleges that she was killed by a driver who clearly had her in his sights.
However, news interviews with Corrie’s friends at the time tell a different story.
Immediately after the accident, our news agency asked to peak with the spokesman of International Solidarity Movement Mike Shaik, who referred us to Lynn Clausen, a 24-year old resident of Washington from the Christians Peacemakers Team based in Hebron, which trains the International Solidarity Movement (ISM) volunteers.
Shaik and Clausen then sent our agency to speak with Corrie’s friends who were with her at the time she was crushed.
Corrie’s friend Joe Smith described how Corrie sat on a mound of dirt facing the IDF bulldozer making its way to the house it was about to demolish. “Rachel had two options”, Smith said. “When the bulldozer started to dig in the dirt pile, the pile started to move, and she could have rolled sideways quickly or fallen backwards to avoid being hit. But Rachel leaned forward to climb to the top of the dirt pile. The bulldozer’s digging drew her downward, and its driver could not see her anymore. So without lifting the scoop, he turned backward and she was already underneath the blade”
Smith’s description is very important, since the picture published by Reuters shows Corrie standing to the left of the bulldozer, in a location where the driver can see her very clearly, as she holds a megaphone in her hand. Beneath the picture’s caption was written: “Photographed before Rachel Corrie was run over by an IDF bulldozer.”
Everyone who looked at the picture and the text understood that the driver, who saw the American civilian standing in front of him, just continued crushing Corrie to death. But Joe Smith said that the picture was taken hours before she was run over, which happened at 5:00 p.m., and not a few minutes beforehand. Smith emphasized that at the time of the incident and during it, there were no photographers in the area.
After our agency checked the pictures that Reuters distributed to the world’s newspapers, we noticed the difference between the colors of the sky in the picture where Corrie stands with the megaphone and the one that shows the body after the incident. The time the picture was taken also appeared in text on the Internet site, saying that it was in the morning. It was not noted that the incident took place hours later.
Our agency called Reuters’s photography department and asked for an explanation. The photography editor said that the pictures were not taken by his agency, which had no photographers in the area at all, and that the pictures came to them via ISM.
The Reuters photography editor added that he wrote clearly that the pictures had been taken by ISM.
Our agency pointed out to him that no such notice appeared in the pictures we saw on the Reuters site. We asked the director general of Reuters in Israel, Tim Heritage, whether Reuters had a set policy of using pictures provided by political organizations, and Heritage replied that it is widespread.
Heritage promised into check the matter of the misleading picture that was taken before the incident and asked us to call him back in an hour.
After an hour, Heritage was no longer available to speak with our agency. We went into the Reuters website and were amazed to find that the pictures of Corrie had been removed.
Thus, the American woman who came to protect the homes of Palestinian terrorists with her own body was wiped out twice: once by an IDF bulldozer and then by the Reuters agency, which came to “document” the incident.
The damage that Reuters caused still requires repair.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
The picture of Rachel Corrie with the megaphone, standing before the bulldozer of the “cruel Zionist occupier”, who was “crushed after this picture was taken”, as Reuters falsely wrote, will be engraved in the memories of those who follow events in the Middle East.
By no strange coincidence, the web site of the International Solidarity Movement, features the picture of Rachel Corrie, holding her proverbial megaphone, with a caption which says that Rachel was in the clear sight of the bulldozer driver before he ran her over. Yes, five hours before…
These pictures were sent out by Reuters in sequence, and gave the impression that Rachel was mauled by the bulldozer after she had been standing with a megaphone in hand, in clear view of the bulldozer driver which ran her down.
**David Bedein is Director of Israel Resource News Agency and Center for Near East Policy Research. Melissa Goraj and Sarah Hindman are staff employees at the center.
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I thank you for republishing facts which came to light years ago to which I have no clue why the once almost kidnapped parents of Rachel Corrie (St. Pancake) continue to wage their “Holy War” against the “big BAD Jews”. I really grow fatiguied at seeing them get so much press out of the death of their hateful offspring.
The ISM is a terrorist aiding cult of leftist radical Berkleyite babies who never learned about real compassion and real world situations. They come to help the Palestinians with misguided zeal and often allow their hate for Israel (Often sprung from hate for those who are Jews whether they realize it or wish to admit it) to fog what little intellect they occupy in their often 20 something heads.
In an ideal world, the Corries will expose themselves for what they are. Hateful wretches for which G-d’s Earth has no time for or they will win their case and bring us one step closer to a world run by the Terrorist’s.
Steve,
We are leaving your own, extremely hateful words, online so others can see and respond to your comment. It is shocking that you would even attempt to say things to someone who has been killed, irregardless of political leanings.
Bikya Masr Staff
Steve told the truth, thanks for leaving his words to enlighten people about who is really bad and who is really good.
steve dude: are you fu*king kiddin me? who being “hatfull” here
spread your ignorance and hate somewhere else, we dont need no more
I would like to get contact information for the Haifa District Court and the lawyers who will handle Israel’s side of the case. They need to know that two International Solidarity Movement members, including one whom the Corries will probably bring as a witness, expressed motives for wanting Rachel Corrie dead. From Joseph Smith (aka Joseph Carr?) whom your article mentions,
http://web.archive.org/web/20030417080621/http://www.freepalestinecampaign.org/Stranger+article.htm
“The spirit that she died for is worth a life. This idea of resistance, this spirit of resisting this brutal occupying force, is worth anything. And many, many, many Palestinians give their lives for it all the time. So the life of one international, I feel, is more than worth the spirit of resisting oppression.”
In other words, Mr. Smith put it on record that he thought his Cause was worth the sacrifice of Rachel’s life (but apparently not his own). Far from expressing remorse or sorrow that it happened, he says it was worth it. http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/3-22-2003-37821.asp adds that Smith’s highest priority was apparently to take pictures of Rachel being run over than to do anything (such as pulling her out of the path of a bulldozer that was, according to his own side’s eyewitness accounts) moving very slowly. A Palestinian journalist meanwhile laments not the fact that she was killed, but that they didn’t have a video camera to make a movie of her being killed.
“A traumatised Smith raised his camera and took photographs: Rachel standing in front of the bulldozer; then her bloodied body being pulled from the freshly turned soil; being cradled in the arms of her friends.
‘If only they’d had a video camera,’ one Palestinian journalist lamented. ‘A film of the Israelis killing an American in cold blood would have ended the intifada.’”
In addition, per http://web.archive.org/web/20040821010657/http://www.standwithus.com/news_post.asp?NPI=85 “Recently, the Director of the Solidarity Movement, George Rishmawi, explained to the San Francisco Chronicle that the recruitment of American student volunteers is useful to the Palestinian Movement because “if some of these foreign volunteers get shot or even killed, then the international media will sit up and take notice.”
So again we have an ISM spokesperson expressing a motive (after the fact in Smith’s case, before or after the fact in Rishwami’s case) for wanting Rachel Corrie dead. When the question of “murder” is raised, as has been done by the ISM, it is heap bad judgment to make gleeful expressions as to how much more useful the decedent is to you dead than she was alive.
A Hamas terrorist also is on record as saying this:
http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/3-22-2003-37821.asp
“‘Her death serves me more than it served her,’ said one activist at a Hamas funeral yesterday. ‘…Her death will bring more attention than the other 2,000 martyrs.’â€
I also have possible evidence of photomanipulations by the ISM. If anyone can tell me how to get this information to the Haifa District Court and the Israeli lawyers before Wednesday, this Rachel Corrie trial will end before it starts and then we will get REAL justice for Rachel Corrie; the discrediting of the organization that at best–and I can think of worse scenarios–encouraged her to stand in front of a bulldozer and then did nothing to get her out of its path when it became evident that the driver did not see her) so it could use her blood to write its propaganda, and then gloated about how much more useful she is to them dead than alive.
To Cindy and Craig Corrie:
You are right to be angry over your daughter’s death but I think you are directing your anger at the wrong people. Her so-called friends in the International Solidarity Movement encouraged or at least allowed her to kneel in front of a construction vehicle (and therefore place herself below the driver’s line of vision, noting that the bulldozer blade would have been in the way and also that the armored vehicle’s view slits did not allow him to see much anyway) and then, when it became clear that the driver was not going to stop, did nothing to pull her out of the way. Since the bulldozer was moving slowly (according to their own testimony), I think an able-bodied man could have done that, but it seems that no men–as our civilization once defined men–were present at the scene.
Furthermore, her “friends” encouraged or allowed her to enter an area with construction equipment without a hard hat which (noting testimony that says head injuries played a role in her death) might in fact have saved her. The bottom line is that she seems to have gotten involved with some very reckless and irresponsible people who have expressed far less remorse than Israel over her death. I believe that Rachel Corrie will have justice when the ISM is exposed for what it is, and turned into a pariah with which nobody of any political view or ideology will associate.
It also seems that the ISM can’t make up its mind how big the bulldozer was. In your picture, the blade is no taller than Rachel Corrie (even allowing for the fact that she is a bit closer to the camera). In the picture at http://www.omdurman.org/ISM/, it towers over her. That picture also is from the ISM, and I think the ISM will soon trip itself up with its own lies.
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caterpillar_D9, a Caterpillar D9 is 13 feet high (twice the height of a tall man) and the blade is 14.7 feet (4.5 meters) wide–more than twice as wide as two men standing side by side with their arms stretched out at full length (the nautical “fathom”). The bulldozer in the above photo is clearly not a D9 or, if it is, Rachel was copied and pasted into the photo without attention to relative dimensions; clumsy and incompetent propaganda that will soon come back to bite the ISM in court.
Note also that the bulldozer in the picture does not have the armor protection for the cab shown at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:D9R_rpg-armor06a.jpg (note how that, if the male IDF soldier’s twin stood on his head, he would still not reach the top of the cab, but two of the Rachel Corries in the picture shown above would be higher than the cab).
Another shot of an armored D9, which does not resemble the one in the ISM’s photo in the least. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IDF-D9R-004.jpg
In general:
I read “But Rachel leaned forward to climb to the top of the dirt pile.”, look at the picture and wonder to myself: how does one “climb” a pile that hardly goes to one’s knee?
I also learn that the picture in question was taken some 5 hours before she was crushed by the bulldozer. Do I have to understand then that Rachel and the driver of the bulldozer were facing each other for 5 hours … doing what? … staring each other in the eye?
Why does this remind me of the Mohamed al Dura case where Israel has removed and destroyed instantly all evidence and now claims with all kind of acrobatic that the boy was killed by Palestinians (see protocol of the Paris trial)? And why is always just one “John Doe” handy to confirm the necessary?
~*~*~
To Steve:
Your might like your semantic-linguistic construction “…terrorist aiding cult of leftist radical Berkleyite babies who never learned about real compassion and real world situations. They come to help the Palestinians with misguided zeal and often allow their hate for Israel (Often sprung from hate for those who are Jews whether they realize it or wish to admit it) to fog what little intellect they occupy in their often 20 something heads.” but it doesn’t really help to obscure the fact, that the ISM spans all over America, Canada and Europe.
I don’t assume that you’d like to tell us that California (where Berkley University is located) has expanded that much, do you? A quick visit to their website might enlighten you: http://palsolidarity.org/about
Where do you fit in the countless Israeli Jews and Jewish organizations who are participating in and/or with this movement? Do you reckon they’re all self-hating and misguided Jews with a “20 something head” without real compassion or understanding of the real world? Just wondering …
~*~*~
To Bill:
Your attempt to smear the ISM with your insinuations is rather pathetic and cheap and doesn’t deserve much of a comment. One fact though is noteworthy: the devil seems to be in the pictures in this Rachel Corrie case. You mention: “…the armored vehicle’s view slits did not allow him to see much anyway…”
Take a look at the picture and see for yourself how “small” the “slit” is … and how good a view the driver had.
~*~*~
These bulldozer drivers are all a bunch of innocent, well-meaning guys who just want to make a living. The famous bulldozer driver “Kurdy Bear” comes to my mind who had three hey-days in Jenin with his “D-9″.
Exerpt from Kurdi Bears testimony:
quote:
I entered Jenin, driven by madness, by desperation, in the worst condition
possible.
I told my wife: “If anything happens to me, at least someone will take care of
you”.
The funny bit was, I didn’t even know how to operate the D-9.
Within two hours, they taught me to drive forwards, and make a flat surface.
I tied the ‘Beitar’ football team flag [an Israeli football team] to the back of the bulldozer and told them: “Move away, let me work.”.
For three days, I just erased and erased
I kept drinking whisky to fight off fatigue
I didn’t see dead bodies under the blade of the D-9, but I don’t care if there where any.
unquote
The full report can be read here: http://www.gush-shalom.org/archives/kurdi_eng.html
~*~*~
Hatred has never been a good advisor and never will be. Israel should start coming clean and then can maybe forward. But it seems to me there is nobody really interested in it.
To Manar – yr comment #4
Calling people names and resorting to foul language has never helped an argument … and … politness never killed anyone.
You want to give it another try in order for us comoneers to understand what it is you wanted to say?
To Steve – yr comment #1
On an afterthought:
Let’s assume the ISM are “leftist radical Berkleyite babies” – which is proven they’re not – for the sake of the argument. What reason(s) would they have to hate Israel and/or the Jews?
What unifies them in their hatred towards Israel and/or the Jews. Any idea to offer?
THAT IS NOT GOOD IM STUDYING HER IN MY POWER HOUR GROUP AT SCHOOL SHE DID ALOT TO SAVE THINGS WE SHOULD TAKE THE BLAME AND THE PERSON THAT KILLED HER I WONDERD IF HE FEELA BAD?????
TO RACHELS FAMILY
I AM STUDYING RACHEL IN MY POWER HOUR GROUP AT SCHOOL SHE IS SPEACIL FOR A LOT THE GUY THAT KILLED HER SHOULD BE SAYING SORRY FOR WHAT HE DID TO RACHEL CORRIE I LOVED HER 5TH GRADE SPEECH IT WAS NICE TO HERE ABOUT WHY SHE CARES FOR THE CHILDREN THAT DONT HAVE MUCH ANY MORE WHAT RACHEL DID WAS BRAVE TO TRY TO SAVE THE HOMES
RACHEL CORRIE WAS YOUNG AND BRAVE
WHO EVER GOT INTO THAT BULLDOZER WAT WERE U THINKING THAT DAY SHEV WOULD HAVE LIVED LONGER IF SHE DIDNT GET CRUSED BY U …… U SHOULD SIT DOWN AND THINK ABOUT IT FOR YEARS , WEEKS ,DAYS AND MONTHS
STEVE ,
THINK THINK THINK ABOUT ALL THIS REALLY DUDE
4.manar 7 March 2010 8:10 PM
steve dude: are you fu*king kiddin me? who being “hatfull†here
spread your ignorance and hate somewhere else, we dont need no more
Thank you for proving my point. Nice word use from a heated voice of unreason. I’m far from ignorant in the Rachel Corrie fairytale.
As for Elenor’s post, the ISM is indeed an imature leftist radical group who an be found on the State Dept watch list for aiding Terrorist operations in not only the West Bank and Gaza but in Israel proper as well. I;m sorry some of you don’t like to hear the opposition to your misguided views on Rachel but as they say, The Truth Hurts.
As for the moderator of this page, I applaud you for allowing Free Speech to go uncensored but I disagree for the reason you allow it and thuis it exposes your bias as well. Shame on you for not seeing this young radical for what she was and what her Parents are. Shame on you!
Sorry Elenor, I failed to answer your question. The ISM is filled with one sided individuals who brand Israel as the oppressor and the Aggressor. Many of these kids come from homes where Jewish hate is expoused on a daily basis. Why does a Nazi hate a Jew? Why does a White supremisist hate one who is non Aryan? Why does a Bosnian hate a Serb? It comes from upbringing. And with this upbringing comes the reality that such hate must be hidden under the guise of pretending Israel stole land. It didn’t. Their hate comes from many things. Why do you think theirs so much hate for a Jew? Did the Jews really do that much damage to the world to warrent such hate? Or have Jews who are so much a small percentage of the world do so much to help mankind? Some of it’s Jealousy.
Facts remain that the ISM as well as much of the world have a biased view of Israel and the Jews. But as Zechariah 8:13 says “The Lord who rules over all says, ‘In those days ten people from all languages and nations will grasp hold of – indeed, grab – the robe of one Jew and say, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.â€.
Then the Jews will be hated no more and the world will be shown it’s iniquity.
Dear Bikya Masr
Where did my comment go? Before putting in my comment to Manar I put in a comment pointing to two facts in the article (rather in the development of the story) which made me wonder – that was a general observation.
In the same comment I put in a sub-section addressing Steve and one addressing Bill. AFTER this comment I put in my afterthought (comment #7) to Steve – only then would an afterthought make sense, wouldn’t it?
My main posting was marked with “your comment is awaiting moderation” so I went to sleep. Checking in this morning I find my main posting gone. What happened? I did experience some difficulties last night with your website – with part of the page disappearing, sentences turning into white space and coming back … but I saw my comment posted on your website.
We know each other for some time. I try to be as fair as a human being can be and don’t attack people with different opinions personally and I leave their religion their personal matter – the way it should be. I also know that my posting was not offensive; why should it be?
I can try to re-construct it but it would be nice if you could put it in. I’m going to the dentist and will check back in the afternoon.
I’m sure that there is a solid good reason for the disappearing of my posting – have a nice day.
Tztztzts … what exacty is going on? I don’t drink wine that early in the morning. I start seing “things” – having put in my comment #11 my original posting appears again with the sentence at the top “… awaiting moderation”. Am I cracking up or is Alzheimer playing with me?
Now I jusstwonder if the other participants see my main posting too and Steve and Bill chose not to comment on it or if this is something only I see?
Well … as I said I must go but will check in the afternoon again. Also to address Steve’s point.
You all have a good day!
I think Steve’s words are accurate and not at all hateful. He pretty much sums up the spirit of the “activists’ who come to help the Palestinians.
Thank you Karin. What many here feel to realize is that the Home Rachel was protecting belonged to a Pharmicist and his family but what they fail to admit or acknowledge is that the house was indeed discovered to have a Tunnel leading into Egypt for the transfer of weapons and Terrorist’s. This was the reason for the IDF was destroying it. Some of the people here should go over to Israel and see what’s really going on. I have.
There is footage that no one likes top show of her as the Bulldozer comes at her. It was show from afar but it’s clear she was in a bad positioon and she knew it. The Photo above was taken in the early afternoon and not when she was killed. Even some of her co-conspirators admit her death was a good thing for “the cause”.
Look, if I had my way I’d give the Palestinians all the West Bank and pull the settlemenst down just to have peace but we’ve already seen what happened in Gaza when they left there. It did indeed become a hot bed for hate and even today rockets continue to be shot over into Israel.
Here’s a deal for the Palestinians:
Stop the Hate of infidels and Jews.
Take the hate out of your Classrooms including your Textbooks.
Stop the Propaganda
Stop hiding Hamas , Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad in your homes and School buildings.
Learn to live alongside your Jewish partners.
Let Jews live in your lands as they allow Arab Muslims, Christians, And Aithioest’s to live in theirs.
I guarentee if the Palestinians do this, the Protection Wall would come down within 5 years
The Settlements would stop expanding
East Jerusalem would be turned over to a Palestinian authrity.
There would be Peace.
To Steve – yr comment #16
Thanks for your answer Steve, I appreciate it. But unfortunately it doesn’t cut it – you mix ethnicity – or race if you prefer – with religion (Jews). Not quite the same. The “hate” or dispise goes today towards the inhumane policy of Israel and its Zionist leaders. That’s quite a difference. Jews have always lived in this part of the world and basically without problems as history gives us ample proof. The same doesn’t apply to Europe as history too gives us ample proof.
The Jews of this region themselves petitioned the Damascus Conference of 1919 (together with the Christians and Muslims of the time) NOT to allow a Zionist state but rather to have one common state for all people living in what was then known as Palestine. It seems to me they knew exactly what they were talking about and why they refused this construct.
Yr comment #20 I’d like to anser briefly with some points which you might view as worth to elaborate on further:
1. This is not their land to give – it is the land of the Palestinians which is occupied according to the UN, the Geneva Convention to name but a few and the occupation must stop. Occupation is the decease – Violence is the symptom.
2. They (Israel) did not leave Gaza and “look what happened”. They never left Gaza. All they did was turning it into the biggest prison on earth with Israel as the warden. They also recruted Egypt’s corrupt regime as assistant warden.
3. They found a puppet called Mahmoud Abbas and seeded him against the democratically elected Palestinian Government.
4. Abbas, under the direct comand and control of Israel and the US, continues to constantly unlawfully hijack the Palestinian people and fuel the Palestinian infighting while Israel continues to steel the Pizza which is not theirs and eat it. Soon there will be nothing left of the Pizza to distribute.
5. The wall should come down in accordance with the International Court order and not upon the acceptance or otherwise of proposals doctered up at someone’s whim. Any law abiding state would have already brought down that criminal apartheid wall … but not Israel.
6. Tunnels to Egypt are dug in the face of the most attrocious crime against humanity committed in history whereby 1 1/2 Mio people are blockaded with the explicit intention of starving them to death. They are not dug to smuggle in terrorists but rather to fight for survival against Israeli state’s terrorism.
7. Before you talk about hate in the Palestinian classrooms I would advise you to go an read Israeli school- and children’s books of old and new. In case you cannot or do not want to find those “loving” books I will give you some exerpts in my next posting.
8. And you talk about propaganda? Which is the largest propaganda machine in the world? If the Zionists dismantle half of their international propaganda machine then I would say 50 % of the problem has been solved for a start. I don’t think I need to elaborate on that because you as well as anyone else know it.
9. I would like to know where you get your solid information from that Palestinians have decreed that no Jews will live in a Palestinian state. Secondly, what is it exactly that you’re talking about when you say they allow Muslim and Christians to live in “their” land? How do you describe the (again) emerging screems by the current fanatic Israeli government to re-define Israel as a Jewish state and the pre-requisite that everyone who wants to continue to live there has to either comply or leave? Would you consider yourself as being allowed to live somewhere when someone can come and demolish your home at any moment because that someone decided to put a park in the place of your home? Or come and arrest you without even the need for a pretext? To steal your water and your land? Destroy your orchards? Uproot your olive trees which are your whole livelyhood? Kill your people by the hundreds with impunity and steal their organs? Maime them by the thousands with impunity? Or destroy your historic cemetries and dig up the bones of your dead … to build – oh irony – on top of the remnance a “Museum of Tolerance” financed by the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles? How magnificent! Is this the example you want the Palestinians to follow? These are NOT the teachings of Ha-Shem.
There is no peace because Israel has no partner for war – it’s that simple.
As the saying goes and it holds true: A good Jew is not a Zionist – a Zionist can never be a good Jew.
Interested to read you – Shalom
Dear Steve
By the way – with respect to your gurantees: you know – or should know – that none of the government parties in Israel accept even the idea of two states (Israel and Palestine). Some profoundly refuse it in absolute clear terms. And that Jerusalem is the “undivided and eternal capital of Eretz Yisrael” is known by know … til Timbuktu.
So … how can you guarantee anything? Also in light of the fact that so far all agreements Israel has put its signature to have been ignored and violated by Israel before the ink was dry?
Just wondering – Shalom
And just for the heck of it, Steve, and while at it: if Israel where the peace loving state you’d like to make us believer … can you come up with a fairly good reason why Israel rejected the peace proposal of the Arab States at the Lausanne Conference of 1949?
Imagine for a second what a chance has been given away … all for the phantasy called “Eretz Yisrael” which is to be built on stolen land. Is this how you like Jewish people to be seen? As ordinary land robbers?
I don’t – because the Jewish religion has so much more to offer. It actually doesn’t offer anywhere to be a land robber.
And just for the heck of it, Steve, and while at it: if Israel where the peace loving state you’d like to make us believe … can you come up with a fairly good reason why Israel rejected the peace proposal of the Arab States at the Lausanne Conference of 1949?
Imagine for a second what a chance has been given away … all for the phantasy called “Eretz Yisrael” which is to be built on stolen land. Is this how you like Jewish people to be seen? As ordinary land robbers?
I don’t – because the Jewish religion has so much more to offer. It actually doesn’t offer anywhere to be a land robber.
To Mikya Masr
Would you be kind enough to remove the double posting? But please … leave one of them
.
Thank you
Think again,
It is very sad to see anyone get killed and specially Rachel Corrie, who came all the way here to our troubled land to defend her values, since we are incapable of defending ours.
I only blame the International Solidarity Movement for giving Rachel a very BAD advice to stand in front of a bulldozer. These kind of tactics will work in US, Europe and other civilized societies where life are precious and important. Applying the same procedures in the Middle East is not wise and not recommended at all.
Both sides harbor hate toward each others for generations. They desecrated each other cemeteries, killed each other childrens. They only difference is that the Israeli side have better PR and the Arab side (I should say sides) is ignorant and naive in almost everything. International Solidarity Movement should expect that Israel will violate all the civilized laws, because it never stopped violating them.
The discussion that Rachel could have rolled sideways quickly or fallen backwards to avoid being hit. Or, the bulldozer driver saw her first, then could not see her anymore. These discution are useles and insignificant, because we can not blame Rachel for being civilzed in her thinking.
Once the bulldozer driver see a person in front of him, he should have stopped period, and not proceed any further. This was not a war, it was demonstration, and Israel should find another way to demolish the house without hurting people.
I am shocked to hear about people who claim they respect life, defending the killing of Rachel as a good kill.
Dear Steve
I’m a bit disappointed to see that you didn’t find the time for a reply …
I have just read the article by Uri Avnery from March 6th, 2010 titled “The Harlot’s Grave” with respect to the “holy sites” in Israel/Palestine and came across the following statement:
“Some days ago, settlers invaded an ancient synagogue in Jericho, which has been preserved by Muslims for generations. Jews had no problem visiting the place peacefully – the Jericho municipality, a part of the Palestinian Authority, has enabled all Jews to pray there.”
There goes another myth. The question remains: who wants to live peacefully?
I hope time allows you to stop by – Shalom
Good morning Eleonora,
There are fanatics in every religion and they draw a bad picture about the religion itself, and there fanatics in every religion. Its up to the moderate to correct the picture.
Many countries have problems with religious fanatics and that include Israel too. Few months ago, some of these fanatic settlers invaded a mosque in the occupied territories. At that time the prime minister apologized and immediately the police force started to look for suspects. The prime minister gave a speech about freedom and freedom of speech…etc. I believe the government take stuff like that very seriously.
These fanatics do not represent the main stream moderate Jews, the same like our own Muslim fanatics don’t represent Islam.
Re: #7
Eleonora,
I am not smearing the ISM, I am merely quoting the ISM’s own words as reported on its own Web site or Web sites that are friendly to it (e.g. Electronic Intifada). The bottom line is that the ISM’s words and actions showed callous and perhaps even reckless indifference to this young woman’s life.
Joseph Smith is on record as saying how much more useful Rachel is to his “Cause” dead than alive. Furthermore, he stood there and took pictures when her life was in danger instead of doing anything to protect her, such as (for example) pulling her out of the bulldozer’s path when it got too close. Any able-bodied man could have done that. Unfortunately for Rachel, there were no men present. There were several individuals with male reproductive equipment but with none of the other characteristics that define what the society of, say, the mid-20th century, called a man. A man would have either pulled Rachel clear of the danger zone or, even better, discouraged her from this dangerous course of action in the first place.
If, as Smith said in his interview, the Palestinian cause was worth a life, why didn’t he give his own instead of allowing this young woman to give hers? Why didn’t he play “chicken” with the bulldozer? Maybe we should run Smith’s assessment by members of our Armed Forces who have lost buddies in combat against the armed enemies of the United States. See if any of them would say of a fallen buddy, “The spirit that he/she died for is worth a life. This idea of resistance, this spirit of resisting the Nazis/ Japanese/ Communists/ Al Qaida, is worth anything.” No soldier would say a war, even one like the Second World War, was “worth” a buddy’s life even though all understand that they are likely to lose friends or die themselves in conflicts of that nature.
George Rismawi is on record as saying how useful it is when somebody like Rachel gets killed in a confrontation with Israel’s security forces.
The Palestinian journalist, for whose purported “country” Rachel’s life was sacrificed, regrets not that she died and that Craig and Cindy Corrie lost a daughter, but that no one had a video camera with which to make a snuff movie with Rachel Corrie as the star. The Palestinians are however well known for their depraved indifference to human life (as shown by suicide bombings, “honor killings,” lynchings, and other forms of mindless violence) so this comes as no surprise.
“Rachel Corrie, 1979-2003, Snuff Film Star for the International Solidarity Movement” sounds like the most accurate epitaph and, when Craig and Cindy Corrie learn just how expendable their daughter was to this organization and its depraved Palestinian allies, Rachel may finally get some real justice in the court of public opinion or even a court of law.
Elenor, sorry you wanted a reply sooner however I work very long hours in the Film Industry and yesterday was a big day in my line of work.
I’m not going to answer point by point because I’m tired and what I say would have no bearing in getting you to see things my way.
I personally believe the land is Jewish land. If you believe anything in Judaism, Christianity or even Islam, you’d know Israel is the land of the Jews and they aren’t occupiers. If you went back in time to see Jesus the Jew from Nazerine, would you be in a land called Palestine? Absolutely NOT. The land was Israel to the North and Judea to the South and it belonged to the 12 tribes of Israel.
I’m not going to sit here and teach ancient history but I’d recommend you take some classes to catch up on the history of the region. Ther squatters actually are the Bedouin Arabs who call them selves Palestinians, a name coined by a Roman Emporer who exiled the Jews after a revolt in the 1st century. However there was always a Jewish presence in the land and according to G-d if you even believe in him, the land only blooms whan Jews control it.
BTW, I’m a native New Yorker but consider my self a proud Jewish Zionist. Zionism is NOT a dirty word as you’ve been led to believe.
To Bill – yr comment #29
Dear Bill
Should I start listing what who said about various conflict situations and their deads respectively – starting with the Zionists with respect to their dead fellow Jews? This “anything goes in quest for the just cause†to get the (un)holy land back? Or what some rightwing fanatic-lunatic US-Neocons said about how “good†9/11 was to further their cause? Or some superior USA soldiers about the Somali deads? Or IDF members? Or the “Muslims� Or … It’s not worth it as we both know these numerous statements from ALL sides which are always handy, undusted and raised like a flag to prove one point or another.
The only positive result of a tragic death which comes to my mind at the moment is the death of Arik Frankenthal which resulted in The Arik Institute, founded by his father Yitzhak in memory of his son and the joining ranks of Yitzhak with Palestinian fathers who lost their children. They now work for peace.
The only positive element that should come out of these tragic deaths including the one of Rachel is: Stop the occupation.
Violence is a symptom – the occupation is the disease. Don’t you think it’s high time to start treating the disease in order for ALL to be able to survive and live in peace? Before it literally eats up Israel? But it can not be a one-way process as the political Zionists in the Israeli Government would like to have it.
I do appreciate though that you don’t try to “beautify†Kurdi Bear et al and those who allowed him/them to go on a rampage. Thank you.
I can not answer your question with respect to the reasons for the despise of the Jews. But I can give you the answer of a (meantime) quite elderly Jew who I met some 20 years ago for the first time and who is an ardent fighter on both sides for a peace which gives as much as possible justice and dignity back to the Palestinians and peace of mind for both peoples. I admire his energy and hold his spirit and thinking in very high esteem.
He told me: “If one person dislikes me – I can live with it. If five dislike me – I can live with it too as not everyone can like me. With fifteen people I get uneasy and with forty I definitely stop and look inside. I did look inside in the late 70s and realized what it so terribly wrong. This is why you find me today in the Peace Camp.†He views himself as a normal, moderate Jew and vehemently opposes if he is called a Zionist.
Shalom and Salam
To Steve – yr comment #30
Dear Steve
With “big day†I hope successful and therefore congratulations, mazeltov and mabrouk
.
I guess you and I can amicably agree that we disagree on certain issues – no harm done. I just would like for people like you and I – who have presumably no ulterior political motives – to be able or at least try to see both sides of the same coin.
Thank you for your advice to take some history classes – I’ve had ample of them without being brainwashed by one religion or another and am, therefore, able to see it quite as it was and is. And it is history! Full stop. None of us can go back and “correct†it. Thanks to HaShem, the Lord and Allah – because any correction (well meaning as it may be … but it would not!) only creates new injustices.
I do know “proud Zionists†who still believe in the idea of “Hovevei Zion†– if you’re one of them too then you’re welcome. Political Zionism is a colonial-settler enterprise based on the mass expulsion of the Palestinian people and the usurpation of their properties. The mass expulsion of an indigenous people is correctly and rightfully defined as a crime against humanity in international law. Nothing really to be proud of, wouldn’t you agree?
According to a Jewish Survey only a meager 22% of the USA Jews consider themselves to be political Zionist. I think this is great!
You say: “The land was Israel to the North and Judea to the South and it belonged to the 12 tribes of Israel.†It does not enter your mind that people were living there already and they might have had some right too before they were conquered by the Jews? No? But even if you where right from a legal standpoint – and you’re not, sorry to say that – and the land was literally empty before the Jews arrived … the millions of people who lived there when you re-entered in mid 20th century don’t cross your mind? Should they be thrown out on the street to die? Would you condone such a move if they were all Jews? I don’t think so.
But if your logic applies that based on a religious book in which you believe the whole world should comply with your demands … how much more must this principle then apply to the native Indian of North and South America including Canada? The people of Diego Garcia? Or do they not count because they have no book to prove their rightful ownership? Or do they not count because they are not Jews?
I do believe in my personal religion although I can not (and do not attempt) proof that it is the right one (no one can during our earthly life and I don’t even address the ones who say that all three books are man-made) – but NONE of the monotheist religions order me to steal, expropriate, disenfranchise and murder for the sake of a piece of land. NONE.
It’s quite a sick understanding if one interprets one’s own religion to do that. And this goes for all 3 of them! My daily life if guided by my spirituality stemming from my religious believes – but the practical daily life is (must be!) – based on my respect for the laws of the country I live in but first and foremost by my acceptance of the principles of the UDHR.
“…the land only blooms whan Jews control itâ€
This is a nice myth – but a myth nonetheless. Umpteen times repeated and umpteen times dismissed as false. Read what Ahad Ha’Am (Asher Ginserg) said about the land after his first visit in 1891: “”We abroad are used to believe that Eretz Yisrael is now almost totally desolate, a desert that is not sowed ….. But in truth that is not the case. Throughout the country it is difficult to find fields that are not sowed. Only sand dunes and stony mountains …. are not cultivated.”
Further we read:
“Ahad Ha’Am published a series of articles in the Hebrew periodical Hameliz that were sharply critical of the ethnocentricity of political Zionism as well as the exploitation of the Palestinian peasantry by the Zionist colonists. Ahad Ha’Am sought to draw attention to the fact the Palestine was not empty territory and that the presence of another people posed problems:
” ….[the Zionist pioneers believed that] the only language the Arabs understand is that of force ….. [They] behave towards the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, trespass unjustly upon their boundaries, beat them shamefully without reason and even brag about it, and nobody stands to check this contemptible and dangerous tendency.” (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 7)
In a pamphlet under the heading line of “Truth from Eretz Yisrael” published in 1891, Ahad Ha’Am wrote of how Jewish settlers at the time treated the indigenous Palestinian people:
“[The Jewish settlers] treat the Arabs with hostility and cruelty, trespass unjustly, beat them shamelessly for no sufficient reason, and even take pride in doing so. The Jews were slaves in the land of their Exile, and suddenly they found themselves with unlimited freedom, wild freedom that ONLY exists in a land like Turkey. This sudden change has produced in their hearts an inclination towards repressive tyranny, as always happens when slave rules.” ‘Ahad Ha’Am warned: “We are used to thinking of the Arabs as primitive men of the desert, as a donkey-like nation that neither sees nor understands what is going around it. But this is a GREAT ERROR. The Arab, like all sons of Sham, has sharp and crafty mind . . . Should time come when life of our people in Palestine imposes to a smaller or greater extent on the natives, they WILL NOT easily step aside.” (One Palestine Complete, p. 104) How accurate ‘Ahad Ha’Am description was even after more a 100 years plus of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict! The conduct of most Israelis, especially in the occupied territories, is very much similar to the way ‘Ahad portrayed early Jewish settlers’ conduct over a century ago.â€
There is more but I think this will do – but if you like I can give you a whole agricultural run-down of Palestine (including the details of crops and fruits dating back to the 10th century. It might interest you (and other readers) that in 1945 the Palestinian were possessing 12 574 774 Dunum (12,5 Mio) whereas the Jews possessed 1 491 699 Dunum (1,5 Mio) [Statistic 1945, British Mandate Admin.]
You might also want to read Ahad Ha’Am’s essay „The Wrong Way“, issued in 1889 – highly interesting.
On a personal note: Hhmmm – what kind of history class do you recommend anyway? One in which they also teach Ha Sepher Ha Palmach – History of the Palmach (see: Kibbutz Menchad Archive, Palmach Archive, Efal, Israel)?
Take care and it’s on me to apologize – I had a tough day today. Hope to read you again,
Shalom
[...] parents pursue their absurd action against the Israeli government an interesting article sheds new light on the incident. Will it make Corrie’s naive, agenda-driven supporters in the West change [...]
ISM members have been photographed with weapons many times. Type ISM members into a search engine, click images and look for them on the pages. They are foolish young people, full of self righteousness and looking for adventures. Jewish people across the world are under threat due to Palestinian propaganda and a jihadist mindset that plays out across the world and what does this silly woman do but play a dangerous game with a bulldozer martyring herself. The Palestinian handlers must have had a party over this. Besides which who was this woman so angry at to be pictured her face twisted ugly with hatred whilst tearing up a picture of her own flag? Her parents ought to be ashamed.
How brave are these young people with their indignation over the plight of the Palestinians…not realising that it is people with their mindset who coupled with the jihadist mentality have made this situation so difficult for the Palestinians themselves. Why do you not find people like them in Sudan? Or the Congo where millions are dying? Could it be that it’s too dangerous for them? Or is it because there is no Jewish involvement there? Oh the Israelis are so terrible aren’t they, allowing the ISM to come and go as they please. Children pretending to be grown ups, revolutionaries, how exciting, so much better than getting a real job. Sad and stupid. So many people in the world to help but they think helping is joining in with the anger and the hatred…it’s not, it’s adding to the problem. They’d do far more good working in the soup kitchens of their own cities….but that would be boring wouldn’t it.